A refreshingly solid stand. Thank you Line people. It was good that in your previous podcast you mentioned how Alberta's been virtually a one-party State for most of the last 50 years. The fact that people will continue voting for a party no matter how shabby a job they do has allowed them to blame a lot of their failures and weaknesses on the federal government. "Not happy? Look! Squirrel/Trudeau!" Also as a former Albertan I can tell you that the constant griping is not winning you any friends. You guys demand more pipelines but we all chipped in something like $35 billion to build you one and it's like it never happened. Why should we do that again? Virtually no one in the rest of Canada dislikes Alberta but there's no need to push that. And let's not forget that the reason you pay the most in transfers is because you are the richest province. That's a strange thing to whine about. Could it be that the inequality issues in Alberta are an internal, provincial government problem? Another thing that isn't mentioned is the huge effect the oil industry has in this. I've just read Don Gillmor's short book "On Oil" and I can't recommend it enough. It wasn't Ottawa who drastically lowered the oil royalty rates and mismanaged the Heritage fund. Separation won't help any of that and will leave Alberta in roughly the same spot as Puerto Rico... and the rest of Canada definitely diminished. A referendum is not needed but a whole lot of hugs are.
No one likes being taken advantage of, even rich people.
As for the pipeline, it isn't charity. Ottawa screwed up and chased all the private sector builders away but Ottawa still needed the oil revenue. So the built it themselves. If that is national unity this country is screwed.
Alberta's governments have been pretty mediocre since 1905, with the exception the Lougheed era. Their one move has usually been to buy their way out of trouble with spending, which has led to a lot of waste and created structural problems in provincial finances. The dynamism of Alberta (and it *is* very dynamic) ain't because of the government...
Exactly. Alberta is either rolling in cash (oil prices up) or bitching about everyone else (oil prices down.) They can't seem to imagine a strategy to build a revenue stream other than oil, despite decades of being whipsawed. Albertans deserve a politician/party that serves their future, rather than the politicians' own present.
I would suggest you go do some research on the StatsCan site.
You may be shocked to hear this - but Alberta's economy is JUST AS DIVERSE as any other province's, give or take a percentage or two.
For example, Ontario is JUST AS reliant on manufacturing as Alberta is on fuel production.
Yes, Oil and Gas is our primary industry, but we've got plenty of other important and flourishing industries too - in fact, recently we've become something of a tech incubator.
Alberta has the most educated populace in Canada (more degrees per capita than ANY other province) so perhaps it is time to stop pretending we're all just hicks and rubes, and start taking Alberta seriously as the economic engine it is.
Nobody has ever pretended you are all hicks. Everyone knows that Alberta is the province of the highest incomes. You do need to raise your standards of who You elect to the premier's office. Smith did a lot of damage when she pulled the rug out from under renewable investments. That's her masters, Big Oil, trying to keep Alberta in their back pocket. Peak demand is on its way and the game going to change.
You may not know this but when Trudeau and La Londe pushed the grossly unfair NEP on Alberta in the 80s Premier Lougheed was livid , called out theft and said it was “ like having uninvited guests come in to your living room and refuse to leave” . Quite so!
Alberta was pushed into a deep depression at warp speed and it which lasted for years. I know, my family were Calgarians and saw their city lose its vibrancy , elan and all that made it a good place to live in.
What made it worse, is that this depression barely made the national news. . But, when Toronto and Ontario hit hard times a few years later, it was constantly reported on the CBC and CTV, our national tv networks.
I've said it before and I've said it again: the NEP was bad, but the bigger factors behind Alberta's economic pain in the early '80s was the global collapse in oil prices and the spike in interest rates to address inflation, which hit overleveraged Albertans particularly hard. Even after the NEP was ended, Alberta's oil sector didn't bounce back for years because of depressed oil prices. I know all of this because I had family working in the Alberta oil sector from the '70s onwards, and was an engineering student in Alberta in the early '90s dealing with the depressed job market. Finally, I worked for a wellhead equipment manufacturer before moving to BC, and heard all about the history from my bosses who'd been around for the whole thing.
It is the same federally. Wilfred Laurier wanted to keep the west at a disadvantage to maintain the hegemony or whatever term for control one wishes to use, for the maintenance of power being kept in Ontario and Quebec. He succeeded.
Frankly, nothing much has changed since. Look at the allotment of both Senators and MPs.in this country. The West is the loser.. ..but we are just supposed to pretend that all is well and not state the obvious, that it is not ..
The MPS are chosen by voters. The seats are based on population. So are the number of Senate seats. Laurier didn't have to do much because Ontario and Quebec will always have more people. Maybe that's why Danielle wanted to double Alberta's population. She backed off pretty quick when the sentiment was going the other way. If you want a stronger voice in Ottawa try voting Liberal or, even better, demand better from your federal Conservatives. Carney didn't win the election because people hate Alberta, he won because Poilievre is a lousy leader. I have voted for every party in my life and I would love to have a chance to vote for Conservatives I could respect. I live in Ontario and it's pretty hard to respect Doug and his thugs.
It is fair game for a news organization- especially an independent one - to take an editorial opinion with respect to a series of topics.
However, dismissing Western discontent and the secessionists so cavalierly is both poorly staged strategy, and unworthy of their very real concerns.
Has Keith Wilson ever been on your show? Given that Jen is a genuinely skilled interviewer, it seems to me it would be grand journalism if he were to appear on the program.
Canada has some very real problems. Some are institutional, some are foundational, and many are just the result of repeated, unforced errors. The problems do not seem to be mitigating. In fact, in many cases, they are getting worse.
Canada will never address any of Alberta's concerns. That's a given, and nobody serious is pretending that it will.
The challenge for the federalists is that all of the downside of separation comes from Canada choosing to punish Alberta out of spite. So talking in vague terms about "statelets" is the best they can do without enraging Albertans.
The challenge for the separatists is that an independent Alberta will lack the leverage to do anything about most of the harms Canada is inflicting.
But maybe some mitigation, plus dignity, is enough.
“In short, we think it’s a grift that is attempting to channel genuine frustration and outrage toward enriching and benefitting a small number of people who are engaging in a pointless fantasy exercise that can only lead to division and damage for the province and good people within it.”
Sounds exactly like Liberal Ottawa policy and practice since the Trudeau Senior days. Just swap “ succeeding” for “attempting”, “country” for “province”, translate to French, and “Voila”!
Again I feel that I have to remind you, it's not just Alberta.
" Separatism is simply not a productive solution to any of those problems." Thanks for the acknowledgement that there are existing and long standing issues. Can I challenge you to supply Western Canadians with a few solutions to address said problems? These issues have been simmering for many years with little to no solutions put forward. And why would you and the rest of Eastern Canada want to change anything for the betterment of Canada? You're the king of the castle!
To ask a question from the title of this post, why?
The nationalists arguments seem to converge on the "change is scary" narrative. That's a lot of benefit of the doubt and I don't think Canada is at the stage where nationalists can ride on inertia anymore.
All this said, yes Canadians and Albertans aren't rebels or bold people. Mediocrity is preferred to disruption for most Canadians. It just is.
The Line is clearly a federalist posting. Not news, as unbalanced, from an Alberta perspective. It is sad that the federalists have no solution to the longstanding concerns of Albertans regarding Confederation. I will be voting "No" to the "Forever Canadian" question.
A "No" vote means:
No unelected, unaccountable, agenda driven, activist judiciary.
No FN veto.
No transfer payments.
No to the flawed electoral system.
No unelected senate.
No pandering to Quebec.
No omnicause based policies.
No CBC.
No to the CRTC too.
Just as I would have voted "No" to the "Alberta Free" question. This is not the time, but 2027 might be. So "Yes", to a post-pipeline failure referendum on leaving Canada.
Mr. Trump did more to help Alberta than anything Dr. Carney has done, to date.
None of the things you’re saying no to I disagree with. But (and I know this isn’t the question), but if you’re voting for separation- do you know what you are saying yes too?
Yes to what currency?
Yes to what leader? What government?
Yes to what trade policy? To what trade agreements?
Yes to what banking infrastructure and institutions?
Yes to what foreign policy? How will we move? Canada nor the US has to accept us. And yes we can leverage Canada here - but it’s a 2 way street
What is the plan to replace the potential mass exodus of our
professional and academic classes?
Start addressing these questions, directly, and you’ll get my attention. If not, stop wasting my and every other serious person’s time with your infantile fantasy. Let’s also be real - as brutal as these items you mention above are. My life is still pretty goddamn good in Alberta, and it is for most people on the whole and in the main. The less we have the less we risk. This is not the case here. Alberta is wealthy by world standards - we have a middle class that is one of the strongest in NA. What are we willing to risk here? To what end?
I understand and feel all the grievances. But we’re not being serious here. We shouldn’t treat it as such. Send the separatists packing. Make them form their own party, present actual solutions and an actual government in waiting. Then we can talk
The Americans did not have a plan at the time of their Revolution, and they seems to have muddled through. I leave it to an unapologetic federalist, author of "Rise to Greatness".
I think our separatist leaders would love the idea of being compared to the American revolution- and the founding fathers. I’ll let that comparison speak for itself…
I like Conrad Black. But he’s glossing over much (as he is with his unabated defense of everything Trump). The reality is AB and Canada are both fucked if we go this way. Not interested.
Proposing to “figure it out on the fly” is complete foolishness. It’s a non-starter for an argument. So I’ll re-iterate it again. Send these guys back into the wildnesses to figure some of it out, form their own party and come back to the table with something serious - including a plan to govern. Right now this nothing more than cosplay and it should be treated as such.
Ran the comparison of the Alberta Separatists leaders vs. "Founding Fathers" through AI. Surprisingly similar, though admittedly, Shakespeare had said everything ever needed about lawyers.
1. Canada went into the shitter under Trudeau. - agreed. Big time.
2. We have relied an a “dollar devaluation” strategy in trade. This is presented as factual and is unsupported by specific policy actions. While a government may prefer this or that. Ultimately our monetary policy is separate from government policy and currency value (for Canada) is floating and market driven. We also had a dollar around and above par in 2008-2012 which gets ignored. Has it been used as a crutch? Sure - but it hasn’t been done as a matter of specific government policy. Anyways - not sure of the relevance of any of this to our conversation.
3. We have corporate rent seeking companies dominating our economy. Yes in some major sectors. You can make similar arguments for the US, and Europe is even worse than us. Will a small parochial AB government be better? Are they even now? I’m in agreement fully with this argument. Don’t see how separatism improves this at all. Never heard them even talk about it.
4.. Canada would be better off as a part of the US… or in an economic union. You could make (or could’ve made without a nut job in the Oval Office) a very strong argument here to most Canadians. You could make a very strong argument here for Alberta to join the US… that’s not the argument being made, nor is that on offer. So it is irrelevant.
Alberta as an independent state would be worse than mediocre. It would be weak, in a terrible negotiating position with its neighbors, and subject to being dominated on terms set by either the US or Canada - that would be in their favor. Do we really think the US is going to give an isolated landlocked state of 5M people with few options a “good deal?” Do we think an angry, irrational and mortally wounded Canada (wounded by AB) will give us one? We’re living in a world now where “might makes right.” We’ve shaken off the illusion of a “rules based international order” for good. You either have leverage and power or you don’t. Consider Alberta’s position, and the people proposing to negotiate on its behalf (who are they even?). We are weaker on our own. Full stop.
I stand by all previous statements. It’s time to close ranks and choose a side. You can want to join the US? this could work, or you can double down on Canada. But an independent AB is a shallow pipe dream.
I appreciate you taking the time to read the article. I am not a member of any of the separatist entities, or a political party for that matter.
We can agree. Ultimately, union with the USA would be inevitable. They will make no overture until the question is called, but contrary to Ms. Gerson's assertions, a State, not Territory, would be on the cards. This is based on statements made by the Governor of North Dakota, a strong opponent to tariffs, good friend with Canada's former ambassador, and one of Mr. Trump's confidants.
Double done on Canada? Thought that what the "West Wants In" was all about? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Dr. A. Einstein
If you don't want 'institutionalized mediocrity', then perhaps you should say what you DO want. You can start by answering the questions you were asked before. Just winging it is not a plan, especially if you're trying to avoid something.
I don't think your "No" vote is going to deliver many of the things you seem to expect it will.
The Alberta judiciary isn't that different from the rest of Canada, and is a product of the same legal schools and clubby legal industry.
First Nations are still going to have a substantial veto within Alberta because they've got treaty rights. The FN veto on things like pipelines through other provinces will get stronger if Alberta isn't part of Canada.
No transfer payments? Fair enough. However, Alberta is now going to need to take on all of the federal responsibilities of things like the CRA, defense, and immigration. Alberta's government hasn't exactly shined in glory running the stuff it's *already* responsible for, so good luck there.
No unelected Senate? Again, fair enough. However, you might find that life with a unicameral legislature isn't all it's cracked up to be with the checks and balances imposed by that sort of institution.
No pandering to Quebec? Again, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Any project or activity depending on the cooperation of Canada is still going to involve dealing with Quebec sentiment.
No omnicause policies? Good luck - 75% of Albertans live in the greater Calgary and Edmonton areas, and are the same urban voters who tend to favor the "omnicause."
No CBC or CRTC? Whatever - elect a federal Conservative government and they're toast anyway.
If you want to vote for separation, vote for what you're really going to get instead of some sort of fantasy wish list.
So some Albertans want to be their own country of 5 million people. If the do so they will join a list of small, inconsequential and most poor other countries of a similar population size . Might be a good idea to look at the list of other countries of similar population and see how they are doing economically. Do those Albertans imagine themselves as libing like Central Americans, Pacific Islanders, small African states ? Or is the real plan of the separatist leaders to be the 51st State ?
With you all the way on Vote to Stay. This has been your consistent position from the outset, I think you are correct and will support you and others working for Alberta to remain in Canada 🇨🇦
As regards Trump, my head hurts trying to figure out how anyone thought the US could find success by showing the Iranians they have a hole card to use that can't easily be taken away?
Maybe the CRTC could focus on finding ways to keep us from getting fucked over on our cell phone bills?
Assuming that there will, indeed, be a vote on separation, it will be interesting to see what steps are taken in anticipation of any American influence - especially in the shadow of the Ford government's forays into infuencing US policy making.
I make this observation, because I recall the "fuss" raised by the convoy crowd when the federal government sought to investigate flows of money to support their efforts. Do we approve of, or care about, monies coming from foreign sources (be it the USA or Russia) to support a particular "side" in a sovereignty referendum? Do we care? And if the answer is "yes", what practically ought to be done about it?
And do remember that the vast majority of money came from Canadians. Much to the disappointment of J. Trudeau et al. Little of it was foreign. And come on, other than a tiny cohort of nuts, the convoy ie. the vast numbers of people who came to Ottawa were not thinking of staging a coup. Read the results of the National Inquiry into the Convoy.
Why does an unfortunate number of Canadians always want what the USA has?
I refer to the insurrection battles in Washington of January 2021. Trudeau and his central Canadian crowd, the media , the ‘elite’ and others would have us believe that the convoy was the same . It was not. Not even close.
Given the constitutional intricacies, the Ottawa bureaucracy, the Supreme Court, and the other Provinces having a say Alberta separation would be at least 25 + away if at all.
A refreshingly solid stand. Thank you Line people. It was good that in your previous podcast you mentioned how Alberta's been virtually a one-party State for most of the last 50 years. The fact that people will continue voting for a party no matter how shabby a job they do has allowed them to blame a lot of their failures and weaknesses on the federal government. "Not happy? Look! Squirrel/Trudeau!" Also as a former Albertan I can tell you that the constant griping is not winning you any friends. You guys demand more pipelines but we all chipped in something like $35 billion to build you one and it's like it never happened. Why should we do that again? Virtually no one in the rest of Canada dislikes Alberta but there's no need to push that. And let's not forget that the reason you pay the most in transfers is because you are the richest province. That's a strange thing to whine about. Could it be that the inequality issues in Alberta are an internal, provincial government problem? Another thing that isn't mentioned is the huge effect the oil industry has in this. I've just read Don Gillmor's short book "On Oil" and I can't recommend it enough. It wasn't Ottawa who drastically lowered the oil royalty rates and mismanaged the Heritage fund. Separation won't help any of that and will leave Alberta in roughly the same spot as Puerto Rico... and the rest of Canada definitely diminished. A referendum is not needed but a whole lot of hugs are.
No one likes being taken advantage of, even rich people.
As for the pipeline, it isn't charity. Ottawa screwed up and chased all the private sector builders away but Ottawa still needed the oil revenue. So the built it themselves. If that is national unity this country is screwed.
Alberta's governments have been pretty mediocre since 1905, with the exception the Lougheed era. Their one move has usually been to buy their way out of trouble with spending, which has led to a lot of waste and created structural problems in provincial finances. The dynamism of Alberta (and it *is* very dynamic) ain't because of the government...
Exactly. Alberta is either rolling in cash (oil prices up) or bitching about everyone else (oil prices down.) They can't seem to imagine a strategy to build a revenue stream other than oil, despite decades of being whipsawed. Albertans deserve a politician/party that serves their future, rather than the politicians' own present.
I would suggest you go do some research on the StatsCan site.
You may be shocked to hear this - but Alberta's economy is JUST AS DIVERSE as any other province's, give or take a percentage or two.
For example, Ontario is JUST AS reliant on manufacturing as Alberta is on fuel production.
Yes, Oil and Gas is our primary industry, but we've got plenty of other important and flourishing industries too - in fact, recently we've become something of a tech incubator.
Alberta has the most educated populace in Canada (more degrees per capita than ANY other province) so perhaps it is time to stop pretending we're all just hicks and rubes, and start taking Alberta seriously as the economic engine it is.
Nobody has ever pretended you are all hicks. Everyone knows that Alberta is the province of the highest incomes. You do need to raise your standards of who You elect to the premier's office. Smith did a lot of damage when she pulled the rug out from under renewable investments. That's her masters, Big Oil, trying to keep Alberta in their back pocket. Peak demand is on its way and the game going to change.
You may not know this but when Trudeau and La Londe pushed the grossly unfair NEP on Alberta in the 80s Premier Lougheed was livid , called out theft and said it was “ like having uninvited guests come in to your living room and refuse to leave” . Quite so!
Alberta was pushed into a deep depression at warp speed and it which lasted for years. I know, my family were Calgarians and saw their city lose its vibrancy , elan and all that made it a good place to live in.
What made it worse, is that this depression barely made the national news. . But, when Toronto and Ontario hit hard times a few years later, it was constantly reported on the CBC and CTV, our national tv networks.
And how do you think that made Albertans feel?
I've said it before and I've said it again: the NEP was bad, but the bigger factors behind Alberta's economic pain in the early '80s was the global collapse in oil prices and the spike in interest rates to address inflation, which hit overleveraged Albertans particularly hard. Even after the NEP was ended, Alberta's oil sector didn't bounce back for years because of depressed oil prices. I know all of this because I had family working in the Alberta oil sector from the '70s onwards, and was an engineering student in Alberta in the early '90s dealing with the depressed job market. Finally, I worked for a wellhead equipment manufacturer before moving to BC, and heard all about the history from my bosses who'd been around for the whole thing.
It is the same federally. Wilfred Laurier wanted to keep the west at a disadvantage to maintain the hegemony or whatever term for control one wishes to use, for the maintenance of power being kept in Ontario and Quebec. He succeeded.
Frankly, nothing much has changed since. Look at the allotment of both Senators and MPs.in this country. The West is the loser.. ..but we are just supposed to pretend that all is well and not state the obvious, that it is not ..
The MPS are chosen by voters. The seats are based on population. So are the number of Senate seats. Laurier didn't have to do much because Ontario and Quebec will always have more people. Maybe that's why Danielle wanted to double Alberta's population. She backed off pretty quick when the sentiment was going the other way. If you want a stronger voice in Ottawa try voting Liberal or, even better, demand better from your federal Conservatives. Carney didn't win the election because people hate Alberta, he won because Poilievre is a lousy leader. I have voted for every party in my life and I would love to have a chance to vote for Conservatives I could respect. I live in Ontario and it's pretty hard to respect Doug and his thugs.
It is fair game for a news organization- especially an independent one - to take an editorial opinion with respect to a series of topics.
However, dismissing Western discontent and the secessionists so cavalierly is both poorly staged strategy, and unworthy of their very real concerns.
Has Keith Wilson ever been on your show? Given that Jen is a genuinely skilled interviewer, it seems to me it would be grand journalism if he were to appear on the program.
Canada has some very real problems. Some are institutional, some are foundational, and many are just the result of repeated, unforced errors. The problems do not seem to be mitigating. In fact, in many cases, they are getting worse.
I know reading is hard for you guys, but they straight up said in the article they have no obligation or desire to provide a platform for separatism.
My reading and comprehension skills have served me rather well, so I will not reply to that comment.
Interviewing a compelling and thoughtful guest is not platforming.
I genuinely hope and desire that Albertans vote to remain in Canada; everyday that passes, however, I understand better why they may not.
Straw manning and silencing may just not be the best ways to keep Alberta in Confederation.
But, then again, they may be.
Canada will never address any of Alberta's concerns. That's a given, and nobody serious is pretending that it will.
The challenge for the federalists is that all of the downside of separation comes from Canada choosing to punish Alberta out of spite. So talking in vague terms about "statelets" is the best they can do without enraging Albertans.
The challenge for the separatists is that an independent Alberta will lack the leverage to do anything about most of the harms Canada is inflicting.
But maybe some mitigation, plus dignity, is enough.
Good post.
Nothing really to add.
Thank you for the reply.
The authors made the point repeatedly that they understand, echo, gave press to AB discontent, and correctly distinguish it from secession.
Maybe that's too inconvenient for you to understand?
Actually not.
My reading and comprehension skills have served me rather well over the years.
Western political discontent & economic alienation is no more separable from secession than is the gin from the tonic.
Read your opinion of separatism.
“In short, we think it’s a grift that is attempting to channel genuine frustration and outrage toward enriching and benefitting a small number of people who are engaging in a pointless fantasy exercise that can only lead to division and damage for the province and good people within it.”
Sounds exactly like Liberal Ottawa policy and practice since the Trudeau Senior days. Just swap “ succeeding” for “attempting”, “country” for “province”, translate to French, and “Voila”!
Again I feel that I have to remind you, it's not just Alberta.
" Separatism is simply not a productive solution to any of those problems." Thanks for the acknowledgement that there are existing and long standing issues. Can I challenge you to supply Western Canadians with a few solutions to address said problems? These issues have been simmering for many years with little to no solutions put forward. And why would you and the rest of Eastern Canada want to change anything for the betterment of Canada? You're the king of the castle!
It's so nice to have a sane conservative publication with Alberta roots.
To ask a question from the title of this post, why?
The nationalists arguments seem to converge on the "change is scary" narrative. That's a lot of benefit of the doubt and I don't think Canada is at the stage where nationalists can ride on inertia anymore.
All this said, yes Canadians and Albertans aren't rebels or bold people. Mediocrity is preferred to disruption for most Canadians. It just is.
The Line is clearly a federalist posting. Not news, as unbalanced, from an Alberta perspective. It is sad that the federalists have no solution to the longstanding concerns of Albertans regarding Confederation. I will be voting "No" to the "Forever Canadian" question.
A "No" vote means:
No unelected, unaccountable, agenda driven, activist judiciary.
No FN veto.
No transfer payments.
No to the flawed electoral system.
No unelected senate.
No pandering to Quebec.
No omnicause based policies.
No CBC.
No to the CRTC too.
Just as I would have voted "No" to the "Alberta Free" question. This is not the time, but 2027 might be. So "Yes", to a post-pipeline failure referendum on leaving Canada.
Mr. Trump did more to help Alberta than anything Dr. Carney has done, to date.
None of the things you’re saying no to I disagree with. But (and I know this isn’t the question), but if you’re voting for separation- do you know what you are saying yes too?
Yes to what currency?
Yes to what leader? What government?
Yes to what trade policy? To what trade agreements?
Yes to what banking infrastructure and institutions?
Yes to what foreign policy? How will we move? Canada nor the US has to accept us. And yes we can leverage Canada here - but it’s a 2 way street
What is the plan to replace the potential mass exodus of our
professional and academic classes?
Start addressing these questions, directly, and you’ll get my attention. If not, stop wasting my and every other serious person’s time with your infantile fantasy. Let’s also be real - as brutal as these items you mention above are. My life is still pretty goddamn good in Alberta, and it is for most people on the whole and in the main. The less we have the less we risk. This is not the case here. Alberta is wealthy by world standards - we have a middle class that is one of the strongest in NA. What are we willing to risk here? To what end?
I understand and feel all the grievances. But we’re not being serious here. We shouldn’t treat it as such. Send the separatists packing. Make them form their own party, present actual solutions and an actual government in waiting. Then we can talk
The Americans did not have a plan at the time of their Revolution, and they seems to have muddled through. I leave it to an unapologetic federalist, author of "Rise to Greatness".
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canada-better-hope-alberta-doesnt-leave-with-its-wealth
I think our separatist leaders would love the idea of being compared to the American revolution- and the founding fathers. I’ll let that comparison speak for itself…
I like Conrad Black. But he’s glossing over much (as he is with his unabated defense of everything Trump). The reality is AB and Canada are both fucked if we go this way. Not interested.
Proposing to “figure it out on the fly” is complete foolishness. It’s a non-starter for an argument. So I’ll re-iterate it again. Send these guys back into the wildnesses to figure some of it out, form their own party and come back to the table with something serious - including a plan to govern. Right now this nothing more than cosplay and it should be treated as such.
Sorry. Cannot accept institutionalized mediocrity for my children. Let's try another, reputable federalist perspective.
https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blogs/news/elbows-up
Ran the comparison of the Alberta Separatists leaders vs. "Founding Fathers" through AI. Surprisingly similar, though admittedly, Shakespeare had said everything ever needed about lawyers.
Read the article. In summary.
1. Canada went into the shitter under Trudeau. - agreed. Big time.
2. We have relied an a “dollar devaluation” strategy in trade. This is presented as factual and is unsupported by specific policy actions. While a government may prefer this or that. Ultimately our monetary policy is separate from government policy and currency value (for Canada) is floating and market driven. We also had a dollar around and above par in 2008-2012 which gets ignored. Has it been used as a crutch? Sure - but it hasn’t been done as a matter of specific government policy. Anyways - not sure of the relevance of any of this to our conversation.
3. We have corporate rent seeking companies dominating our economy. Yes in some major sectors. You can make similar arguments for the US, and Europe is even worse than us. Will a small parochial AB government be better? Are they even now? I’m in agreement fully with this argument. Don’t see how separatism improves this at all. Never heard them even talk about it.
4.. Canada would be better off as a part of the US… or in an economic union. You could make (or could’ve made without a nut job in the Oval Office) a very strong argument here to most Canadians. You could make a very strong argument here for Alberta to join the US… that’s not the argument being made, nor is that on offer. So it is irrelevant.
Alberta as an independent state would be worse than mediocre. It would be weak, in a terrible negotiating position with its neighbors, and subject to being dominated on terms set by either the US or Canada - that would be in their favor. Do we really think the US is going to give an isolated landlocked state of 5M people with few options a “good deal?” Do we think an angry, irrational and mortally wounded Canada (wounded by AB) will give us one? We’re living in a world now where “might makes right.” We’ve shaken off the illusion of a “rules based international order” for good. You either have leverage and power or you don’t. Consider Alberta’s position, and the people proposing to negotiate on its behalf (who are they even?). We are weaker on our own. Full stop.
I stand by all previous statements. It’s time to close ranks and choose a side. You can want to join the US? this could work, or you can double down on Canada. But an independent AB is a shallow pipe dream.
I appreciate you taking the time to read the article. I am not a member of any of the separatist entities, or a political party for that matter.
We can agree. Ultimately, union with the USA would be inevitable. They will make no overture until the question is called, but contrary to Ms. Gerson's assertions, a State, not Territory, would be on the cards. This is based on statements made by the Governor of North Dakota, a strong opponent to tariffs, good friend with Canada's former ambassador, and one of Mr. Trump's confidants.
Double done on Canada? Thought that what the "West Wants In" was all about? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Dr. A. Einstein
If you don't want 'institutionalized mediocrity', then perhaps you should say what you DO want. You can start by answering the questions you were asked before. Just winging it is not a plan, especially if you're trying to avoid something.
A comparison of 1776 to 2026 is infinitely unserious.
I don't think your "No" vote is going to deliver many of the things you seem to expect it will.
The Alberta judiciary isn't that different from the rest of Canada, and is a product of the same legal schools and clubby legal industry.
First Nations are still going to have a substantial veto within Alberta because they've got treaty rights. The FN veto on things like pipelines through other provinces will get stronger if Alberta isn't part of Canada.
No transfer payments? Fair enough. However, Alberta is now going to need to take on all of the federal responsibilities of things like the CRA, defense, and immigration. Alberta's government hasn't exactly shined in glory running the stuff it's *already* responsible for, so good luck there.
No unelected Senate? Again, fair enough. However, you might find that life with a unicameral legislature isn't all it's cracked up to be with the checks and balances imposed by that sort of institution.
No pandering to Quebec? Again, depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Any project or activity depending on the cooperation of Canada is still going to involve dealing with Quebec sentiment.
No omnicause policies? Good luck - 75% of Albertans live in the greater Calgary and Edmonton areas, and are the same urban voters who tend to favor the "omnicause."
No CBC or CRTC? Whatever - elect a federal Conservative government and they're toast anyway.
If you want to vote for separation, vote for what you're really going to get instead of some sort of fantasy wish list.
Yes and thank you. Because Alberta is a showcase of solid, competent governance.
So some Albertans want to be their own country of 5 million people. If the do so they will join a list of small, inconsequential and most poor other countries of a similar population size . Might be a good idea to look at the list of other countries of similar population and see how they are doing economically. Do those Albertans imagine themselves as libing like Central Americans, Pacific Islanders, small African states ? Or is the real plan of the separatist leaders to be the 51st State ?
With you all the way on Vote to Stay. This has been your consistent position from the outset, I think you are correct and will support you and others working for Alberta to remain in Canada 🇨🇦
As regards Trump, my head hurts trying to figure out how anyone thought the US could find success by showing the Iranians they have a hole card to use that can't easily be taken away?
Maybe the CRTC could focus on finding ways to keep us from getting fucked over on our cell phone bills?
Thanks!
Assuming that there will, indeed, be a vote on separation, it will be interesting to see what steps are taken in anticipation of any American influence - especially in the shadow of the Ford government's forays into infuencing US policy making.
I make this observation, because I recall the "fuss" raised by the convoy crowd when the federal government sought to investigate flows of money to support their efforts. Do we approve of, or care about, monies coming from foreign sources (be it the USA or Russia) to support a particular "side" in a sovereignty referendum? Do we care? And if the answer is "yes", what practically ought to be done about it?
And do remember that the vast majority of money came from Canadians. Much to the disappointment of J. Trudeau et al. Little of it was foreign. And come on, other than a tiny cohort of nuts, the convoy ie. the vast numbers of people who came to Ottawa were not thinking of staging a coup. Read the results of the National Inquiry into the Convoy.
Why does an unfortunate number of Canadians always want what the USA has?
I refer to the insurrection battles in Washington of January 2021. Trudeau and his central Canadian crowd, the media , the ‘elite’ and others would have us believe that the convoy was the same . It was not. Not even close.
Sometimes I wonder when Canada will grow up….
And I also recall that irritation of the Kenny govrnment when green zealots from the Sierra club were advertising in Canada.
As Gen and Matt say: "Why would Alberta want to leave, Canada is trying?"
Hmm. Just caught the byline…. Dripping with condescension …. No need to go much further with that….
Given the constitutional intricacies, the Ottawa bureaucracy, the Supreme Court, and the other Provinces having a say Alberta separation would be at least 25 + away if at all.