Nobody here has been in favor of QC separation. Nor does the separatist party in QC try to hide its true intentions. Those who support separatist in QC run under the separatist party and are elected on that platform. Seems that it’s the AB separatists who want AB to be treated as a special snowflake and allow politicians to just change what the stand for mid election cycle.
If your UCP candidate crossed the floor to NDP today, would you feel the same way? What about coming out as a proud federalist? If you only support it when it agrees with your view then you’re looking for convenience and agreement and not actually caring about democracy and the rule of law.
I don't think it is in this case. The Quebec Legislature and Quebec MPs have made a big deal out of oaths to the King or Queen for a long time. Since 2022, Quebec MLAs (MNAs) have not sworn an oath to the King. So, unlike pro-secession Albertan MLAs, in Quebec they seem to be well aware of the significance of making an oath you don't believe in.
I'd be ok with Canada west of Quebec separating and leaving Ottawa and Atlantic Canada behind. The new country could (just barely) bring Toronto along for the tax base and still override that region's psycho voting tendencies, but I would understand if it didn't want to.
Rather than root around looking to denounce the UCP and currently our provincial government why not a serious article discussing the alleged issues of alienation and abuse that form the basis for this movement. Is there validity to the claims made for instance and if so how does one counter those claims? Why a segment of Albertans are supportive of separation is a big question that demands answers not vilification of them for their position.
I actively don't want Alberta to separate for a variety of self-interested reasons, but the more pearl clutching I see about it, the more I agree with the separatists.
I actively DO want Quebec to separate. In or out, guys, and clearly you don't want to be in.
For many years now, I’ve been saying Canada is a failed experiment when it comes to federation. BC is too poorly managed to make it on their own. At one point it could have been a successful resource-full country. But it’s run by dumbasses.
I think you missed the point I was making. Quite simply rather than the current fear mongering approach to separation let’s have a reasoned discussion about the causes of such sentiment. Why does a segment of the Alberta population consider separation as an alternative to being a part of Canada. Is there an element of validity to their view and if so how best to address it. This is not about party politics ie UCP vs NDP.
Indeed. There is a history of disrespect and actual contempt from Ottawa of a type not given to any other province, including the spoiled child in the sandbox, Quebec.
It's not about party politics, and I'm seeing lots of consensus about the stupid things done that frustrated the AB (one horse) economy, things we're undoing.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
So, yes, we need to "have a reasoned discussion about the causes of such sentiment." We also need to vilify, shame, sanction, expel, excommunicate and, wherever possible, prosecute every scumbag who selfishly, publicly prostrate themselves for the orange mcdonald's garbage can and his incompetent gang of thieves, just because they see an opportunity.
No reasoned discussion with that ilk. Fuck them. Send them to the shithole country they love.
You would get a different answer from almost every person. Basing this just on family members who are separatist. Most of them are also relatively uneducated so they aren’t concerned about the specifics, they just want to stick it to Ottawa and be able to do wha we want here in AB. They also believe that there will be more of their own tax dollars kept in province. They don’t worry about currency, citizenship, economy, roads, healthcare, or consider the money that Ottawa sends into the province. They believe that things would stay the same except no more Ottawa (it’s a very naive view.)
I obviously can’t speak for anyone outside my family - but the things they complain about aren’t things that would be any different if AB was sovereign. The population would still be masses in cities making the urban/rural divide just as substantive as the east/west divide. So they’ll always be unhappy about something - even if they did separate.
All the more reason to bring out into the open all these issues and address them one by one by questioning their validity. No doubt some are based on anecdotal fable and some are very real. You make some good points.
I agree there could be value in this, but unless my family is an anomaly, they don’t engage in discussion around real issues but rather it’s an us vs them mentality and they tend to attack with things like straw man and ad hominem attacks rather than engage in honest debate. For the ones I know well, separatism is closer to a religious belief than one arrived to through rational decision making. (I’m not saying all are like this - I’m certain they can’t be. But I’ve had decades to try and learn to engage with them and have at times tried to engage with them, but even asking questions to try to understand results in insults and comments like “surely you can see” or “you must know” and it quickly devolves into attacking. I realize my sample size is about a dozen people, but I would say they’re likely typical in being rural, farmers, ok with doing their own thing even if it’s against the law (driving without a license, drinking and driving because they’re only going down a rural road, etc)
I do think equalization plays an oversize role because it’s misunderstood. But they’ll never be convinced otherwise. So from their perspective Alberta will always have the worst deal as long as it’s in Canada and independence is the only way to get a better deal. Since they don’t want to engage on issues of logistics (currency, citizenship, healthcare, economy, etc) it is hard to discuss. Truthfully I’ve avoided conversations in the last 6 months because I don’t have the tolerance right now. I no longer view their statements as harmless things that will never happen and nobody in the general public cares about - but now see their strong beliefs as harmful and I have no interest in feigning interest or curiosity when I think they’re outright damaging and threaten life as we know it.
I apologize for the pessimism but I guess it’s the long length of time I’ve seen them cycle through this for. They’re the hardcore separate at any cost population and there’s no reasoning or discussing with them. (I apologize for typos, the way the text box behaves on substack recently you can’t see what you’re typing on mobile device and my phone’s autocorrect is sometimes really weird!)
There has been a segment in support of this for 20-30 years at least. They’ve just never been given the same degree of public thought. And I think the calling out of the lack of democratic process that the separatists are following right now is important for anyone who cares about democracy. If the movement looking to leave Canada is operating in undemocratic ways (and it fundamentally is - nobody has elected any of the separatists!!) then that should concern every Albertan. Regardless of whether you support separatism or not you should care about democracy and not being an authoritarian state run by a bunch of people who can’t handle disagreement.
The next provincial election will be interesting though. I guess I’m starting to revisit my never NDP beliefs. As much as I detest the party, I won’t vote for. uCP party who is soft on separation and risk the harms that can be done in another 4 years. At least the harms of an NDP government don’t involve potential separation.
It will be interesting to see the final tally in the petition. While we may not like it, that petition is a real and legally recognized administrative process currently underway. It's being done legally. For me. I'm not familiar with how Alberta would become an authoritarian state. That's not on Smith's agenda. I can't see any Albertan wanting that.
Part of the reason we don't get into the discussion of the "alleged issues" is that it's not a question with a single answer. The "why are you mad" answers range from the obviously reasonable to the obviously childish... and it's difficult to engage seriously with unserious and childish people. Ideally, we would engage ONLY with the serious adults in the room, but unfortunately the lines are very blurred.
The "Republican party of Alberta"... that absolutely screams "I have a HUGE inferiority complex about my nationality and wish I had been born in the USA because I'm embarassed to be Canadian". They're nominally "pro American", but who wants to put real money on the table with a claim that there's any serious segment of their members who are big fans of Obama and the Democratic party? No one? Exactly. These people aren't "pro-American". They're people who wish they already were Americans so they could get on with voting for the GOP. The "I want to be American" crowd is just unserious. It's like seriously engaging with someone screaming that the RCMP didn't "read him his miranda rights". There's just no point.
What about the serious people and the reasonable issues? Well, that would be nice to talk about. Let's talk about them... BUT... none of those serious people are seperatists. Why not? Because "PLAY THE GAME MY WAY OR I QUIT" is a deeply unserious way to act.
You'll notice Stephen Harper didn't act that way. And he became Prime Minister. There are serious issues. The under-representation of Alberta and other provinces in the commons and the over-representation of the LPC voting maritimes. The "X is bad except when Quebec does it, then we pretend it's good".
I thought Danielle Smith might be such a person for the 2020s... but it turns out she's either has no convictions or she lacks the courage to tell anyone what they are. Which is pathetic.
Oh, you know they have no legitimate grievances, of course. Just spoiled children who should show some more appreciation.
Nothing to do with a seemingly perpetual national government that kicks and demonizes groups and business sectors who are vastly over-represented in Alberta, lets other regions play by totally different rules, and clings to power using increasingly galling and underhanded methods, removing any relief valve.
The differences in how Quebec separatism is treated versus Alberta are there for all to see. It has been verboten, I think, to treat Quebec like a bunch or rebel scum, which they are not. Nor are Albertans rebel scum.
Smith's answer might be terrible in your view but she is a long established libertarian in her beliefs. Her answer is absolutely consistent with that, I think. I don't see Smith riding two horses at once, again, libertarian in her beliefs. And this has been well-known for ages, so for me, that's why branding her a traitor or treasonous or seditious is ridiculous and worthy of scorn.
She believes there is a jurisdiction problem between Ottawa and Alberta. (There is.) She has said, repeatedly, she wants a "sovereign Alberta within a united Canada." That sounds a heck of a lot like what Quebec has enjoyed for a long time. It is sovereignty association by another name.
Also, the author doesn't get to decide what patriotism is. It means something different to everyone, so that is a terrible definition in my view.
Smith has all the cards in this awful national unity exercise this country has found itself in. Again.
Albertans deserve the same deal as Quebeckers. I do wonder, is there any reason why Alberta shouldn't be treated the same?
So far, I think Ottawa never considered that Alberta separatism was a thing. I think the way it is being responded to is pretty damned harsh and wrong given that Smith's libertarianism is well known.
It's pretty simple: if government ministers have no problem violating a public oath, why trust them with any other matter? Defenders will usually make an argument that, no - that was *different* - they'll keep their word on *other things* that are actually important! I've heard variations of that for years, notably when US president Bill Clinton lied under oath or the many times he lied about his infidelity.
Breaking oaths, lying, and dishonesty are all markers of poor character, and people of poor character should not be given power and public finances. It should also give people pause about the various promises made by these separatists - what else are they going to lie about to get what they want?
Well said. Smith’s double speak and inability to clearly denounce separation are no coincidence. She’s a separatist. It’s not complicated. Nice to see it’s getting increasingly difficult for her to ride both horses with her gobbledygook “independent AB within a united Canada” nonsense. She knows when she loses the separatist vote she’s cooked. Imagine not having the courage to tell your MLA’s they should not be voting for separation. She’s so “brave and bold” on so many trivial non issues but this one has her tied up in knots.
I don't think she's anything more than another very small person who desperately needs a stage for her ego. Did you see the photo with both her and David Eby enjoying a hockey game on the dime of that corrupt health care business family?
Same ego, different religion.
She'll bankrupt the place and leave people angry, just like BC.
I see Canada as more like the European Union than anything resembling a true confederation of equals like our neighbors to the south. And Ottawa and its oppressive prosperity and freedom killing regulations is resented just as Brussels is resented by similarly affected Europeans such as farmers or other national resource extractors. And the elaborate system of robbing the producing entities to bribe the non producing provinces - who will always be in the majority due to natural human inertia - will continue until the robbed get fed up and say enough. Brexit is one instance, and Quebec is another (although the latter case is compounded by the mutual hostility between tribes who have detested each other for centuries IMO).And the Alberta independence movement is just another example of the desire to control one’s own destiny.
Do you mean the Brexit that is an economic disaster, facilitated (well documented) by social media, aided by pootin's troll farms, and that the U.K. is trying to undo?
lol
Society at large suffers greatly in the hands of racist idiots who love themselves first, pining for a society that pre-existed computers, and they see with rose coloured glasses.
Oh I’m sure that like any divorce both parties will have to eat peanut butter sandwiches for a while (and perhaps trade in their pickups for Chinese EVs😆). The day of independence “rapture” will be followed by lots of recrimination and hard work before reaching the “city on the hill” (Feel free to replace the quoted biblical images words with suitable synonyms) . It probably took the US a couple of generations to free itself from the yoke of foreign owners. And a free Alberta will undoubtedly take a while to disentangle itself from some of its current Canadian/Laurentian overlords (to be replaced by Chinese ones if one believes PM Carney’s recent statement that he had no issues with Chinese companies acquiring Canadian resource companies).
There was an interesting article in the National Post about Governor (of the Bank of England, not of Canada 😆) Carney’s role during Brexit.
Smith appears to be the great facilitator of this entire charade, claiming not to “police” her MLAs yet equally doing nothing for the cause of Canadian unity. Shame on her duplicity.
Methinks the author confuses government with country, that the oath to King and country translates to patriotism only through obedience to an illiberal, anti-western, corrupt federal government dedicated to separating national policy from supporting and defending the central values of peace, order, and good government. Those who wish to return to a liberal, pro-western responsible government forced by reality to have to reformat what constitutes the federal level in order to do so are now to be considered the seditionists! Nice piece of vilifying and rationalizing that I'm almost sure will best address the sinking ship of state known as Canada.
Yup, it's the sailors' fault over there - the ones actually doing the bailing - who are the mutineers for not rallying to the cause of stripping even more planking from the hull ordered by the governing officers to feed the cabin furnaces and best meet the comfort and warmth for the first class passengers who care not one whit for the condition of the ship itself. Our betters presume to lecture us that we must all drown together, donchaknow. It's the only patriotic thing to do.
Sir, you write in part, "'A sovereign Alberta in a unified Canada' ... is an oxymoron."
No, Sir, it is not an oxymoron.
The Constitution of Canada provides that certain areas are under the exclusive control of the provinces. For example section 92A provides that the provinces have exclusive jurisdiction over natural resources. Section 92 provides that provinces have exclusive jurisdiction over direct taxation, administration of justice and various other matters.
The point is that in the particular areas the provinces are sovereign. In other areas the federal government is sovereign. In yet other areas there is joint sovereignty.
So, to repeat, a sovereign Alberta in a united Canada is NOT an oxymoron.
Danielle Smith needs to quit jerking Albertans around. Take a stance on separatism. Tell us loud and clear what that is . Be a responsible adult and a proper politician. She no longer has my support as a voter.
Smith trying to please both sides is why the UCP has lost my vote, my membership, and my donations.
The Alberta Republican Party knows when put to an actual vote, their candidates get 1% of the vote. Of course they don’t want to start fresh and want to instead have soft UCP MLa’s. I normally don’t like how parties whip their MLA to vote in one specific way, but I do wonder if on subjects such as this there needs to be much clearer guidance.
Let’s go to the polls and elect a government who is honest about their platform around d separatism. Then at least those of us who would exit a newly declared independent Alberta have a chance to exit early before the proverbial poop hits the fan.
> I normally don’t like how parties whip their MLA to vote in one specific way, but I do wonder if on subjects such as this there needs to be much clearer guidance.
Ms. Smith is not opposed to disciplining MLAs for voting the "wrong" way. If I recall correctly, she kicked out one of her MLAs for voting in favour of an investigation into the corruption allegations around health care in Alberta. But not one who wants to break up the whole country gets kicked out.
So that tells us that she DOES have red lines, it's just "trying to break up the country" isn't one of them.
Public servants also make oaths, no? At higher levels for secrecy?
I suppose the Alberta politicians could advocate for "The Kingdom of Alberta". A different aim then the republicans.
But it sounds absurd to write this.
It is interesting to see how old fashioned things like oaths and kingdoms are in fact relevant to the politics of Canada. The article does a nice job pulling this out.
An Alberta Sikh just won the right to be a lawyer without swearing allegiance. It means nothing anymore. I voted for my MLA to stand up for Alberta, and I respect his/her decisions in this regard -- it is called democracy.
If Quebec wanted to leave,they would have left already. And good riddance,I’ve had enough. Go already. Albertans,and Danielle Smith is taking this province where a majority of us don’t want to go. I didn’t vote for this
The generous financial advantages to stay in Canada are why Quebec has not made any actual efforts to leave. My Premier Davis Eby pointed out specifically to PMCarney in the fall, that it was BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan that financed the transfer payments that provinces got.
Respect was something that he felt was in short supply from Ottawa and was long overdue. And he is so right!
> why Quebec has not made any actual efforts to leave
Say what now? They made a HUGE effort to leave. And they lost.. despite running the same "you can have your cake and eat it too" campaign... several times in fact. My youth was dominated by the Quebec separatists making serious efforts to break up Canada. (The terrorist group trying to force an independent Quebec on the public was before my time.)
As usual, one standard for Quebec and a different one for Alberta.
Nobody here has been in favor of QC separation. Nor does the separatist party in QC try to hide its true intentions. Those who support separatist in QC run under the separatist party and are elected on that platform. Seems that it’s the AB separatists who want AB to be treated as a special snowflake and allow politicians to just change what the stand for mid election cycle.
If your UCP candidate crossed the floor to NDP today, would you feel the same way? What about coming out as a proud federalist? If you only support it when it agrees with your view then you’re looking for convenience and agreement and not actually caring about democracy and the rule of law.
I don't think it is in this case. The Quebec Legislature and Quebec MPs have made a big deal out of oaths to the King or Queen for a long time. Since 2022, Quebec MLAs (MNAs) have not sworn an oath to the King. So, unlike pro-secession Albertan MLAs, in Quebec they seem to be well aware of the significance of making an oath you don't believe in.
I'd be ok with Canada west of Quebec separating and leaving Ottawa and Atlantic Canada behind. The new country could (just barely) bring Toronto along for the tax base and still override that region's psycho voting tendencies, but I would understand if it didn't want to.
Rather than root around looking to denounce the UCP and currently our provincial government why not a serious article discussing the alleged issues of alienation and abuse that form the basis for this movement. Is there validity to the claims made for instance and if so how does one counter those claims? Why a segment of Albertans are supportive of separation is a big question that demands answers not vilification of them for their position.
Yeah, the more vilification there is, the more sympathetic I am to their cause.
I actively don't want Alberta to separate for a variety of self-interested reasons, but the more pearl clutching I see about it, the more I agree with the separatists.
I actively DO want Quebec to separate. In or out, guys, and clearly you don't want to be in.
For many years now, I’ve been saying Canada is a failed experiment when it comes to federation. BC is too poorly managed to make it on their own. At one point it could have been a successful resource-full country. But it’s run by dumbasses.
UCP is above criticism, lol?
Goodness they should do better then.
I think you missed the point I was making. Quite simply rather than the current fear mongering approach to separation let’s have a reasoned discussion about the causes of such sentiment. Why does a segment of the Alberta population consider separation as an alternative to being a part of Canada. Is there an element of validity to their view and if so how best to address it. This is not about party politics ie UCP vs NDP.
Indeed. There is a history of disrespect and actual contempt from Ottawa of a type not given to any other province, including the spoiled child in the sandbox, Quebec.
It's not about party politics, and I'm seeing lots of consensus about the stupid things done that frustrated the AB (one horse) economy, things we're undoing.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
So, yes, we need to "have a reasoned discussion about the causes of such sentiment." We also need to vilify, shame, sanction, expel, excommunicate and, wherever possible, prosecute every scumbag who selfishly, publicly prostrate themselves for the orange mcdonald's garbage can and his incompetent gang of thieves, just because they see an opportunity.
No reasoned discussion with that ilk. Fuck them. Send them to the shithole country they love.
You would get a different answer from almost every person. Basing this just on family members who are separatist. Most of them are also relatively uneducated so they aren’t concerned about the specifics, they just want to stick it to Ottawa and be able to do wha we want here in AB. They also believe that there will be more of their own tax dollars kept in province. They don’t worry about currency, citizenship, economy, roads, healthcare, or consider the money that Ottawa sends into the province. They believe that things would stay the same except no more Ottawa (it’s a very naive view.)
I obviously can’t speak for anyone outside my family - but the things they complain about aren’t things that would be any different if AB was sovereign. The population would still be masses in cities making the urban/rural divide just as substantive as the east/west divide. So they’ll always be unhappy about something - even if they did separate.
All the more reason to bring out into the open all these issues and address them one by one by questioning their validity. No doubt some are based on anecdotal fable and some are very real. You make some good points.
I agree there could be value in this, but unless my family is an anomaly, they don’t engage in discussion around real issues but rather it’s an us vs them mentality and they tend to attack with things like straw man and ad hominem attacks rather than engage in honest debate. For the ones I know well, separatism is closer to a religious belief than one arrived to through rational decision making. (I’m not saying all are like this - I’m certain they can’t be. But I’ve had decades to try and learn to engage with them and have at times tried to engage with them, but even asking questions to try to understand results in insults and comments like “surely you can see” or “you must know” and it quickly devolves into attacking. I realize my sample size is about a dozen people, but I would say they’re likely typical in being rural, farmers, ok with doing their own thing even if it’s against the law (driving without a license, drinking and driving because they’re only going down a rural road, etc)
I do think equalization plays an oversize role because it’s misunderstood. But they’ll never be convinced otherwise. So from their perspective Alberta will always have the worst deal as long as it’s in Canada and independence is the only way to get a better deal. Since they don’t want to engage on issues of logistics (currency, citizenship, healthcare, economy, etc) it is hard to discuss. Truthfully I’ve avoided conversations in the last 6 months because I don’t have the tolerance right now. I no longer view their statements as harmless things that will never happen and nobody in the general public cares about - but now see their strong beliefs as harmful and I have no interest in feigning interest or curiosity when I think they’re outright damaging and threaten life as we know it.
I apologize for the pessimism but I guess it’s the long length of time I’ve seen them cycle through this for. They’re the hardcore separate at any cost population and there’s no reasoning or discussing with them. (I apologize for typos, the way the text box behaves on substack recently you can’t see what you’re typing on mobile device and my phone’s autocorrect is sometimes really weird!)
There has been a segment in support of this for 20-30 years at least. They’ve just never been given the same degree of public thought. And I think the calling out of the lack of democratic process that the separatists are following right now is important for anyone who cares about democracy. If the movement looking to leave Canada is operating in undemocratic ways (and it fundamentally is - nobody has elected any of the separatists!!) then that should concern every Albertan. Regardless of whether you support separatism or not you should care about democracy and not being an authoritarian state run by a bunch of people who can’t handle disagreement.
The next provincial election will be interesting though. I guess I’m starting to revisit my never NDP beliefs. As much as I detest the party, I won’t vote for. uCP party who is soft on separation and risk the harms that can be done in another 4 years. At least the harms of an NDP government don’t involve potential separation.
...what could possibly be MORE democratic than holding a referendum...?
It will be interesting to see the final tally in the petition. While we may not like it, that petition is a real and legally recognized administrative process currently underway. It's being done legally. For me. I'm not familiar with how Alberta would become an authoritarian state. That's not on Smith's agenda. I can't see any Albertan wanting that.
Part of the reason we don't get into the discussion of the "alleged issues" is that it's not a question with a single answer. The "why are you mad" answers range from the obviously reasonable to the obviously childish... and it's difficult to engage seriously with unserious and childish people. Ideally, we would engage ONLY with the serious adults in the room, but unfortunately the lines are very blurred.
The "Republican party of Alberta"... that absolutely screams "I have a HUGE inferiority complex about my nationality and wish I had been born in the USA because I'm embarassed to be Canadian". They're nominally "pro American", but who wants to put real money on the table with a claim that there's any serious segment of their members who are big fans of Obama and the Democratic party? No one? Exactly. These people aren't "pro-American". They're people who wish they already were Americans so they could get on with voting for the GOP. The "I want to be American" crowd is just unserious. It's like seriously engaging with someone screaming that the RCMP didn't "read him his miranda rights". There's just no point.
What about the serious people and the reasonable issues? Well, that would be nice to talk about. Let's talk about them... BUT... none of those serious people are seperatists. Why not? Because "PLAY THE GAME MY WAY OR I QUIT" is a deeply unserious way to act.
You'll notice Stephen Harper didn't act that way. And he became Prime Minister. There are serious issues. The under-representation of Alberta and other provinces in the commons and the over-representation of the LPC voting maritimes. The "X is bad except when Quebec does it, then we pretend it's good".
I thought Danielle Smith might be such a person for the 2020s... but it turns out she's either has no convictions or she lacks the courage to tell anyone what they are. Which is pathetic.
Oh, you know they have no legitimate grievances, of course. Just spoiled children who should show some more appreciation.
Nothing to do with a seemingly perpetual national government that kicks and demonizes groups and business sectors who are vastly over-represented in Alberta, lets other regions play by totally different rules, and clings to power using increasingly galling and underhanded methods, removing any relief valve.
The differences in how Quebec separatism is treated versus Alberta are there for all to see. It has been verboten, I think, to treat Quebec like a bunch or rebel scum, which they are not. Nor are Albertans rebel scum.
Smith's answer might be terrible in your view but she is a long established libertarian in her beliefs. Her answer is absolutely consistent with that, I think. I don't see Smith riding two horses at once, again, libertarian in her beliefs. And this has been well-known for ages, so for me, that's why branding her a traitor or treasonous or seditious is ridiculous and worthy of scorn.
She believes there is a jurisdiction problem between Ottawa and Alberta. (There is.) She has said, repeatedly, she wants a "sovereign Alberta within a united Canada." That sounds a heck of a lot like what Quebec has enjoyed for a long time. It is sovereignty association by another name.
Also, the author doesn't get to decide what patriotism is. It means something different to everyone, so that is a terrible definition in my view.
Smith has all the cards in this awful national unity exercise this country has found itself in. Again.
Albertans deserve the same deal as Quebeckers. I do wonder, is there any reason why Alberta shouldn't be treated the same?
Is Ottawa a victim of Stockholm Syndrome when it is Quebec? I do think that there is definitely an element of it. It is quite obvious.
So far, I think Ottawa never considered that Alberta separatism was a thing. I think the way it is being responded to is pretty damned harsh and wrong given that Smith's libertarianism is well known.
It's pretty simple: if government ministers have no problem violating a public oath, why trust them with any other matter? Defenders will usually make an argument that, no - that was *different* - they'll keep their word on *other things* that are actually important! I've heard variations of that for years, notably when US president Bill Clinton lied under oath or the many times he lied about his infidelity.
Breaking oaths, lying, and dishonesty are all markers of poor character, and people of poor character should not be given power and public finances. It should also give people pause about the various promises made by these separatists - what else are they going to lie about to get what they want?
Well reasoned George.
Well said. Smith’s double speak and inability to clearly denounce separation are no coincidence. She’s a separatist. It’s not complicated. Nice to see it’s getting increasingly difficult for her to ride both horses with her gobbledygook “independent AB within a united Canada” nonsense. She knows when she loses the separatist vote she’s cooked. Imagine not having the courage to tell your MLA’s they should not be voting for separation. She’s so “brave and bold” on so many trivial non issues but this one has her tied up in knots.
For me, I think this is absolutely 10000% her libertarian beliefs.
I don't think she's anything more than another very small person who desperately needs a stage for her ego. Did you see the photo with both her and David Eby enjoying a hockey game on the dime of that corrupt health care business family?
Same ego, different religion.
She'll bankrupt the place and leave people angry, just like BC.
I see Canada as more like the European Union than anything resembling a true confederation of equals like our neighbors to the south. And Ottawa and its oppressive prosperity and freedom killing regulations is resented just as Brussels is resented by similarly affected Europeans such as farmers or other national resource extractors. And the elaborate system of robbing the producing entities to bribe the non producing provinces - who will always be in the majority due to natural human inertia - will continue until the robbed get fed up and say enough. Brexit is one instance, and Quebec is another (although the latter case is compounded by the mutual hostility between tribes who have detested each other for centuries IMO).And the Alberta independence movement is just another example of the desire to control one’s own destiny.
Do you mean the Brexit that is an economic disaster, facilitated (well documented) by social media, aided by pootin's troll farms, and that the U.K. is trying to undo?
lol
Society at large suffers greatly in the hands of racist idiots who love themselves first, pining for a society that pre-existed computers, and they see with rose coloured glasses.
Oh I’m sure that like any divorce both parties will have to eat peanut butter sandwiches for a while (and perhaps trade in their pickups for Chinese EVs😆). The day of independence “rapture” will be followed by lots of recrimination and hard work before reaching the “city on the hill” (Feel free to replace the quoted biblical images words with suitable synonyms) . It probably took the US a couple of generations to free itself from the yoke of foreign owners. And a free Alberta will undoubtedly take a while to disentangle itself from some of its current Canadian/Laurentian overlords (to be replaced by Chinese ones if one believes PM Carney’s recent statement that he had no issues with Chinese companies acquiring Canadian resource companies).
There was an interesting article in the National Post about Governor (of the Bank of England, not of Canada 😆) Carney’s role during Brexit.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/truss-carney-terrible-job-bank-of-england#:~:text=Days%20after%20the%20disastrous%20mini,Article%20content
Smith appears to be the great facilitator of this entire charade, claiming not to “police” her MLAs yet equally doing nothing for the cause of Canadian unity. Shame on her duplicity.
Methinks the author confuses government with country, that the oath to King and country translates to patriotism only through obedience to an illiberal, anti-western, corrupt federal government dedicated to separating national policy from supporting and defending the central values of peace, order, and good government. Those who wish to return to a liberal, pro-western responsible government forced by reality to have to reformat what constitutes the federal level in order to do so are now to be considered the seditionists! Nice piece of vilifying and rationalizing that I'm almost sure will best address the sinking ship of state known as Canada.
Yup, it's the sailors' fault over there - the ones actually doing the bailing - who are the mutineers for not rallying to the cause of stripping even more planking from the hull ordered by the governing officers to feed the cabin furnaces and best meet the comfort and warmth for the first class passengers who care not one whit for the condition of the ship itself. Our betters presume to lecture us that we must all drown together, donchaknow. It's the only patriotic thing to do.
Excellent and well aimed at the real causes of AB, and western Canada, separatism.
Yes, I’m sure the king would appreciate his subjects tearing themselves apart
Sir, you write in part, "'A sovereign Alberta in a unified Canada' ... is an oxymoron."
No, Sir, it is not an oxymoron.
The Constitution of Canada provides that certain areas are under the exclusive control of the provinces. For example section 92A provides that the provinces have exclusive jurisdiction over natural resources. Section 92 provides that provinces have exclusive jurisdiction over direct taxation, administration of justice and various other matters.
The point is that in the particular areas the provinces are sovereign. In other areas the federal government is sovereign. In yet other areas there is joint sovereignty.
So, to repeat, a sovereign Alberta in a united Canada is NOT an oxymoron.
Danielle Smith needs to quit jerking Albertans around. Take a stance on separatism. Tell us loud and clear what that is . Be a responsible adult and a proper politician. She no longer has my support as a voter.
Smith trying to please both sides is why the UCP has lost my vote, my membership, and my donations.
The Alberta Republican Party knows when put to an actual vote, their candidates get 1% of the vote. Of course they don’t want to start fresh and want to instead have soft UCP MLa’s. I normally don’t like how parties whip their MLA to vote in one specific way, but I do wonder if on subjects such as this there needs to be much clearer guidance.
Let’s go to the polls and elect a government who is honest about their platform around d separatism. Then at least those of us who would exit a newly declared independent Alberta have a chance to exit early before the proverbial poop hits the fan.
> I normally don’t like how parties whip their MLA to vote in one specific way, but I do wonder if on subjects such as this there needs to be much clearer guidance.
Ms. Smith is not opposed to disciplining MLAs for voting the "wrong" way. If I recall correctly, she kicked out one of her MLAs for voting in favour of an investigation into the corruption allegations around health care in Alberta. But not one who wants to break up the whole country gets kicked out.
So that tells us that she DOES have red lines, it's just "trying to break up the country" isn't one of them.
Public servants also make oaths, no? At higher levels for secrecy?
I suppose the Alberta politicians could advocate for "The Kingdom of Alberta". A different aim then the republicans.
But it sounds absurd to write this.
It is interesting to see how old fashioned things like oaths and kingdoms are in fact relevant to the politics of Canada. The article does a nice job pulling this out.
An Alberta Sikh just won the right to be a lawyer without swearing allegiance. It means nothing anymore. I voted for my MLA to stand up for Alberta, and I respect his/her decisions in this regard -- it is called democracy.
If Quebec wanted to leave,they would have left already. And good riddance,I’ve had enough. Go already. Albertans,and Danielle Smith is taking this province where a majority of us don’t want to go. I didn’t vote for this
The generous financial advantages to stay in Canada are why Quebec has not made any actual efforts to leave. My Premier Davis Eby pointed out specifically to PMCarney in the fall, that it was BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan that financed the transfer payments that provinces got.
Respect was something that he felt was in short supply from Ottawa and was long overdue. And he is so right!
> why Quebec has not made any actual efforts to leave
Say what now? They made a HUGE effort to leave. And they lost.. despite running the same "you can have your cake and eat it too" campaign... several times in fact. My youth was dominated by the Quebec separatists making serious efforts to break up Canada. (The terrorist group trying to force an independent Quebec on the public was before my time.)
Sorry, David Eby.
On the other hand, Yvonne, Eby is demanding respect from Otterwer but is denying respect to we in Alberta.
Strange, methinks. But, then, that is Eby and BC.
Great post Ian!
Smith's sycophantic spineless and silent caucus caucus, along with federal CPC MPs