Myself and my family have requested our mail in ballots as of yesterday and today. We are going to make sure our voice is counted without having to deal with long lines.
I am an unapologetic federalist - not because I think it's perfect, but because I understand that the grass is never greener on the other side and I value the things I have in Canada far too much to let some discontented complainers ruin it. So the best thing I can do is make sure that I'm counted on referendum day. I would've otherwise stayed home because I think the referendum questions are a joke. I am going to have to closely review whether I can skip answering the other 9 questions. If I can't, then I'm going to just vote for whatever looks like the status quo because I think the whole referendum is a giant waste of taxpayer dollars.
"The grass is never greener on the other side"? Were your ancestors wrong to come here? Or to move to Alberta? If so, would they have also been wrong to go home?
While people (including the author) make comparisons with Brexit, I wonder if the 2014 Scotland independence referendum in 2014 (which failed) is a better comparison. The Scots made the whole David-Goliath argument, and argued that they would retain ownership of North Sea oil resources, and that they would automatically remain a member of the EU. They also used the tactic (not listed in this article, but I'm sure it would be used by Separatists here) of dismissing any counter-argument from an English person as "Scots don't like to be talked down to by posh southern Londoners, and any attempt to will be counterproductive" -- in other words, anything you say to decrease support for independence will end up increasing it, so the rest of the UK should just be quiet.
Canada’s equivalent to posh southern Londoners are (is?) the Quebec French carpetbaggers who have taken over the Canadian Civil Service and support the Central Canada elites who want to keep things as they were.
We used this to fight the Quebec separatists; If Alberta can separate from Canada, then X (name your city, town, village) can separate from Alberta.
Montreal had and still has a large anglophone population. The idea that parts of Montreal and parts of the Eastern Townships could separate from Quebec, was something the separatists never wanted to talk about. Separation for me but not for you.
None of these are "credible arguments why Alberta should stay in Canada". Because the only actual such argument is that Canada might well harm itself in order to punish a secessionist Alberta. Which is, of course, a valid argument. But not necessarily one that makes secession less likely.
The thing is, there doesn't actually TRULY need to be a "credible" argument for staying in Canada. Those who want to disrupt the status quo before the full burden of providing all of the details of why change is necessary, what it will look like, and how it will benefit the citizens. I have not seen any serious discussion from separatists about currency, licensure, banking, insurance, trade, and citizenship.
Though just for kicks and giggles I would like to hear how separatists think they'd determine "Alberta" citizenship. If it's anyone who lives in Alberta at the time of separation, then you'd gain a whole bunch of people who aren't even Canadian citizens. If it's anyone born in Alberta, then it divides families including siblings and couples.
And then you'd have to negotiate whether Canadians would actually be willing to give up their Canadian passports. (I can't imagine anyone trading a Canadian passport for a country's passport that has no organized democratic government, no currency, and no true structures of society, but I guess there are many who have never travelled and don't care about passports.)
$20 billion a year in a population of under 5 million is a credible argument.
I hope, when they go, they have the following citizenship rules: all Canadian citizens resident in Alberta, plus all Alberta born resident elsewhere, plus all with parents born in Canada who move to Alberta within two years. That would turn Alberta into an economic powerhouse.
Many Albertans I know want to stay but also want to vote yes on the option of a referendum so that Ottawa will know the status quo on seat allocation in both the house and senate as well as equalization payments are no longer acceptable. We view it as playing the same cards Quebec always has. People are sick and tired of being taken advantage of when it comes to how we are treated in Confederation. If they make concessions and clean up the inequities, it all goes away.
This is a very good reminder of what kind of dirty, low-down, no-account dogs these kind of people are. They will lie, cheat and steal just to get their unintelligent, nonsensical fantasy ways.
Brilliant. If everyone just copypasta-ed a comment of the relevant explanation of the technique used in a seppie AI-post on Facebook or Truth Social, we might actually get them to attempt a coherent argument. No guarantees though.
While I appreciate Mr. Wesley's effort in producing his list, it seems to me that it's the press taking this issue seriously is what's causing it to be a serious issue. Why? Because it makes great press. And frankly, avoiding that sort of coverage is a major reason why I signed onto The Line.
Anybody else knows that it's best to avoid being the kind of person that argues with a fool.
(Which is sort of like being the kind of person who tries to make a deal with a grifter, but I digress ...)
And no, just because I'm from Ontario doesn't mean I'm any more happy with the feds or even many aspects of confederation as it stands now. In fact, I haven't been my entire adult life. But I'd rather try and change things than move or insist that my patch of ground secede.
But it does make you question the efficacy of our education system ... (yes, all of ours)
Great example of name calling in lieu of logical argument. The “cowering cuckolds” of Canada can now rest easily in the shady side of the Laurentian hills. The Order of Canada awaits in Ottawa - “where dreams go to die”
From outside Alberta, this is a useful and compelling piece, however how is the message delivered to those Albertans who might be inclined to the separatist message? Certainly not through the Line!
I have family that is extraordinarily pro-separatist. There is no message that will reach them because they're living in a pipe dream of how great it will be. They're disenfranchised, living with low income, and willing to accept a dream of things being better and them personally having more of a say. They generally don't understand the concept of compromise or the needs of society. As such, I don't think there is any way to get the message to the determined separatists. But those of us who don't want to separate can certainly encourage others to get out and vote and make sure this issue is not something that we have to deal with for the next decade.
I will not try to dissuade any separatists at this point for the same reasons you outline. No point and I don't want to descend into that name-calling level (too easy sometimes). Definitely get people out to vote, though!
Thank you to Jared Wesley for writing this clear-headed, well-reasoned and compelling op-ed, and to The Line for publishing it.
Myself and my family have requested our mail in ballots as of yesterday and today. We are going to make sure our voice is counted without having to deal with long lines.
I am an unapologetic federalist - not because I think it's perfect, but because I understand that the grass is never greener on the other side and I value the things I have in Canada far too much to let some discontented complainers ruin it. So the best thing I can do is make sure that I'm counted on referendum day. I would've otherwise stayed home because I think the referendum questions are a joke. I am going to have to closely review whether I can skip answering the other 9 questions. If I can't, then I'm going to just vote for whatever looks like the status quo because I think the whole referendum is a giant waste of taxpayer dollars.
"The grass is never greener on the other side"? Were your ancestors wrong to come here? Or to move to Alberta? If so, would they have also been wrong to go home?
FANTASTIC
While people (including the author) make comparisons with Brexit, I wonder if the 2014 Scotland independence referendum in 2014 (which failed) is a better comparison. The Scots made the whole David-Goliath argument, and argued that they would retain ownership of North Sea oil resources, and that they would automatically remain a member of the EU. They also used the tactic (not listed in this article, but I'm sure it would be used by Separatists here) of dismissing any counter-argument from an English person as "Scots don't like to be talked down to by posh southern Londoners, and any attempt to will be counterproductive" -- in other words, anything you say to decrease support for independence will end up increasing it, so the rest of the UK should just be quiet.
Canada’s equivalent to posh southern Londoners are (is?) the Quebec French carpetbaggers who have taken over the Canadian Civil Service and support the Central Canada elites who want to keep things as they were.
We used this to fight the Quebec separatists; If Alberta can separate from Canada, then X (name your city, town, village) can separate from Alberta.
Montreal had and still has a large anglophone population. The idea that parts of Montreal and parts of the Eastern Townships could separate from Quebec, was something the separatists never wanted to talk about. Separation for me but not for you.
Thank you Jared, the devil is in the details.
None of these are "credible arguments why Alberta should stay in Canada". Because the only actual such argument is that Canada might well harm itself in order to punish a secessionist Alberta. Which is, of course, a valid argument. But not necessarily one that makes secession less likely.
The thing is, there doesn't actually TRULY need to be a "credible" argument for staying in Canada. Those who want to disrupt the status quo before the full burden of providing all of the details of why change is necessary, what it will look like, and how it will benefit the citizens. I have not seen any serious discussion from separatists about currency, licensure, banking, insurance, trade, and citizenship.
Though just for kicks and giggles I would like to hear how separatists think they'd determine "Alberta" citizenship. If it's anyone who lives in Alberta at the time of separation, then you'd gain a whole bunch of people who aren't even Canadian citizens. If it's anyone born in Alberta, then it divides families including siblings and couples.
And then you'd have to negotiate whether Canadians would actually be willing to give up their Canadian passports. (I can't imagine anyone trading a Canadian passport for a country's passport that has no organized democratic government, no currency, and no true structures of society, but I guess there are many who have never travelled and don't care about passports.)
$20 billion a year in a population of under 5 million is a credible argument.
I hope, when they go, they have the following citizenship rules: all Canadian citizens resident in Alberta, plus all Alberta born resident elsewhere, plus all with parents born in Canada who move to Alberta within two years. That would turn Alberta into an economic powerhouse.
I'm going to create a checklist and I feel more prepared for the coming weeks - thanks so much.
Sounds like we need to make some bingo cards...
Good point! There's always a chance that the order could get re-arranged - what will we win? haha, just staying prepared is reward right now.
Jared,
Many Albertans I know want to stay but also want to vote yes on the option of a referendum so that Ottawa will know the status quo on seat allocation in both the house and senate as well as equalization payments are no longer acceptable. We view it as playing the same cards Quebec always has. People are sick and tired of being taken advantage of when it comes to how we are treated in Confederation. If they make concessions and clean up the inequities, it all goes away.
This is a very good reminder of what kind of dirty, low-down, no-account dogs these kind of people are. They will lie, cheat and steal just to get their unintelligent, nonsensical fantasy ways.
Beware! These are not your friends.
Brilliant. If everyone just copypasta-ed a comment of the relevant explanation of the technique used in a seppie AI-post on Facebook or Truth Social, we might actually get them to attempt a coherent argument. No guarantees though.
While I appreciate Mr. Wesley's effort in producing his list, it seems to me that it's the press taking this issue seriously is what's causing it to be a serious issue. Why? Because it makes great press. And frankly, avoiding that sort of coverage is a major reason why I signed onto The Line.
Anybody else knows that it's best to avoid being the kind of person that argues with a fool.
(Which is sort of like being the kind of person who tries to make a deal with a grifter, but I digress ...)
And no, just because I'm from Ontario doesn't mean I'm any more happy with the feds or even many aspects of confederation as it stands now. In fact, I haven't been my entire adult life. But I'd rather try and change things than move or insist that my patch of ground secede.
But it does make you question the efficacy of our education system ... (yes, all of ours)
Great example of name calling in lieu of logical argument. The “cowering cuckolds” of Canada can now rest easily in the shady side of the Laurentian hills. The Order of Canada awaits in Ottawa - “where dreams go to die”
From outside Alberta, this is a useful and compelling piece, however how is the message delivered to those Albertans who might be inclined to the separatist message? Certainly not through the Line!
I have family that is extraordinarily pro-separatist. There is no message that will reach them because they're living in a pipe dream of how great it will be. They're disenfranchised, living with low income, and willing to accept a dream of things being better and them personally having more of a say. They generally don't understand the concept of compromise or the needs of society. As such, I don't think there is any way to get the message to the determined separatists. But those of us who don't want to separate can certainly encourage others to get out and vote and make sure this issue is not something that we have to deal with for the next decade.
I will not try to dissuade any separatists at this point for the same reasons you outline. No point and I don't want to descend into that name-calling level (too easy sometimes). Definitely get people out to vote, though!