You are brave, open-minded and openhearted, Jen. The veil between what we know and what we cannot know fully (e.g. "G~d") is very thin for those with your qualities. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Brave. Yes, I agree with Deborah, it was brave to step into this space, and also open-minded, open-hearted, and curious. I've felt drawn in recent years to this kind of exploration of my soul, but it also scares the begeus out of me at the same time, having stepped away from Catholicism in my teen years and only occasionally looking back. Good for you. I hope the insights are still percolating and you use the lessons you've learned to better your experience in this world. Thanks for the piece, and for sharing your experience.
PS: As an aside... when my youngest son was 5 he started having night terrors. I'd been home with the kids since they were born (6 years by that time) and my hubby was immersed in his MBA at Ivey... suffice to say I expect my son was feeling the stress and it manifest as night terrors. This was the mid 90s, no internet to speak of, and I had never heard of night terrors... at midnight, sitting with him and trying to calm the both of us down, my initial response was... he was possessed by the Devil. He was running about screaming as if being chased by a monster, his pupils were fully dilated despite the bedroom light, so the Devil seemed an apt explantion. And in the next heartbeat, rationality reimposed itself and I realized something else must be afoot. A little research with our GP (we had those in those days) and we landed on night terrors and stress. I said to myself at the time, and feel it to this day: you can take the Catholic out of the Church, but you can't take the Church out of the Catholic. Cheers.
"a diligent and regular meditator..." and raised Catholic. I wonder if you've read Dr. Diana Pasalka's latest book, Encounters. In it she comments on the Monroe Institute, different imaginations for Catholic iconography, remote viewing, how history and context make our understandings. I don't think she insists on many answers, which I prefer to the intellectual hubris required to insist.
I'm very grateful for this piece. "For an idea to have any merit, it must first appear absurd." said Einstein, and I struggle with hard borders between science, magic, mysticism, religion, borders that are always moving as a result of open-minded inquiry. (A television showing the image of myself as a child might be terrifying 500 years ago.)
I wanted to go to the Monroe Institute; the Monroe Institute may be capitalizing on a single, sensational, element of a greater truth. Right now, I'm just enjoying the ambiguity of thinking about consciousness as external, accepting the dualism theory has failed (it never made intuitive sense), and trying on the idea that consciousness does not simply observe, but is the root of creation.
If life is the universe' ever-creating, infinite possibility, method of understanding itself, the UAP phenomenon may be a creation/catalyst that leads us to understand who we really are. If I am not my thoughts, but the one who observes them, there's more to understand than time to complete the work. Life is awesome.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I thought for sure you were going to nail the contents of that box in an Amazing Kreskin-esque flourish, but I think the ending to your tale was satisfying anyways.
You stated that some people find material atheism to be insufficient for a meaningful life, a claim I have heard many times. I always thought this is a strange conclusion because the universe is chalk full of mystery without having to consent to anything remotely resembling the supernatural. Simply spending any time thinking about the relationship between time and space - even without the requisite training in quantum physics or cosmology - will bend the mind to the edge of understanding and challenge the notion of our very existence. In other words, there's plenty of mysticism to be had without having to worry if one is handing the keys to their consciousness to a deity.
I just meditated and saw the angel Castiel. He told me among other things that the every season of the show Supernatural after season five was mid to terrible, oh and that instead of doing journalism The Line is wasting our subscription money funding dumb pet projects.
He suggested the Line's tag line to "The Line is the last best hope for irreverent commentary... Oh and also one of our founders indulging her weird hobby horses on someone else's dime. We like lively writing, and also Jen's half baked metaphysical wanderings. I guess we also reject bullshit... Or something.... Donate now so Jen can travel to Antarctica to snuggle a Penguin. But basically forget about your donation being used for journalism... That's not happening."
Honestly I thought it was kind of wordy... But hey an angel said it so who am I to judge.
Cynical materialist atheist here, and also a failed meditator. Only been able to maintain the practice for a week or two at a time and never really got anywhere with it. I'm sure I'll take another swing at it soon.
Also no question that some people, regardless of the underlying scientific/rational truths, actively seek out supernatural explanations to things that don't require it. Hence the goofy interview with Avi Loeb a couple weeks back and the reappearance of UFO's/UAP's in the news every few years as a new bullshit artist generates attention. Turns out the alien spaceship really is just an interstellar comet. That's not as much fun of an explanation, though!
As far as remote viewing goes, apparently McMoneagle wrote that humans came from creatures somewhat like sea otters rather than primates and were created in a laboratory by creators who "seeded" the earth and then departed in his book The Ultimate Time Machine. Sounds totally legit and not some modern day Nostradamus throwing shit at the wall. If Remote Viewing worked, were all the good ones too shy to collect Randi's prize for 50 years? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
As the saying goes, it's fine to have an open mind, but if you're not careful the damn thing might fall out.
“As far as remote viewing goes, apparently McMoneagle wrote that humans came from creatures somewhat like sea otters rather than primates and were created in a laboratory by creators who "seeded" the earth and then departed in his book The Ultimate Time Machine.”
Whether remote viewing works or not, there’s a time honoured tradition among the CIA and FBI debunking machine to destroy the researchers cred.
Im sure you didnt mean it to, but the above looks textbook!
There was never any reason to believe it was anything other than an interstellar comet, unless you're a jaded astronomer who's bitter that the astronomical community has been snickering at you for positing more and more far-fetched and totally baseless predictions about aliens. The guy has totally torched his reputation in exchange for a bit more media notoriety. Probably not a great trade.
Jen: Might I recommend - or see again - the movie “The men who stared at goats”
This was before your time. My wife took part in one of her college courses in Ottawa at the urging of the professor in a course that I believe involved psychedelics. Same time frame (1960s) where the CIA allegedly fried assorted people’s brains is similar experiments at a Montreal Institute.
Interesting read. Such a retreat would be a waste on me because I have no mind's eye (aphantasia). Is that perhaps what you are referring to when you say the following? "and individuals who did not have a spiritual or artistic inner library, tended to swim in the black, or to "click out" during the sessions — the term used for falling asleep." I definitely lack an inner library, although I am rather artistic.
This was a very interesting read. I found myself at various times wondering if that would be something I'd enjoy - or if I'd find myself going insane in an environment like that. Part of me is intensely curious, but another part of me thinks I'm wise to stay away.
I'd love a follow-up down the road to see if this is something that fell into the basket of "interesting but not life changing" or if as time passes if your memories or perceptions of it change. I definitely believe in altered states of consciousness, and have seen some interesting things while floating that I can't explain. But for whatever reason, your description about the emotional intensity and challenges you had to navigate internally during the week you were there makes me think I will settle for reading your experience and don't need to go experience it myself. I am curious to see if this ends up being one of those pivotal life moments though.
These days, I often see the flame of a candle in my mind's eye. It was a conscious effort to put it there. I believe it is my subconscious mind that allows it to stay . I'm an immaterialist, like Berkeley, I believe all of our physical reality must be experienced by a single observer in order to exist. You neared the threshold of the reality beyond what can be recorded and observed. One last thing, psychosis can affect anyone. Careful with that.
Ms. Gerson: Perhaps you will gain some insights as to your views about the box by reading about the Schrödinger's cat paradox. Or maybe you already have and that informed your decision.
You are brave, open-minded and openhearted, Jen. The veil between what we know and what we cannot know fully (e.g. "G~d") is very thin for those with your qualities. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Interesting Jen. The mind is an interesting and often confusing place.
Thank you for your vulnerability, honesty and sharing your experiences.
Brave. Yes, I agree with Deborah, it was brave to step into this space, and also open-minded, open-hearted, and curious. I've felt drawn in recent years to this kind of exploration of my soul, but it also scares the begeus out of me at the same time, having stepped away from Catholicism in my teen years and only occasionally looking back. Good for you. I hope the insights are still percolating and you use the lessons you've learned to better your experience in this world. Thanks for the piece, and for sharing your experience.
PS: As an aside... when my youngest son was 5 he started having night terrors. I'd been home with the kids since they were born (6 years by that time) and my hubby was immersed in his MBA at Ivey... suffice to say I expect my son was feeling the stress and it manifest as night terrors. This was the mid 90s, no internet to speak of, and I had never heard of night terrors... at midnight, sitting with him and trying to calm the both of us down, my initial response was... he was possessed by the Devil. He was running about screaming as if being chased by a monster, his pupils were fully dilated despite the bedroom light, so the Devil seemed an apt explantion. And in the next heartbeat, rationality reimposed itself and I realized something else must be afoot. A little research with our GP (we had those in those days) and we landed on night terrors and stress. I said to myself at the time, and feel it to this day: you can take the Catholic out of the Church, but you can't take the Church out of the Catholic. Cheers.
"a diligent and regular meditator..." and raised Catholic. I wonder if you've read Dr. Diana Pasalka's latest book, Encounters. In it she comments on the Monroe Institute, different imaginations for Catholic iconography, remote viewing, how history and context make our understandings. I don't think she insists on many answers, which I prefer to the intellectual hubris required to insist.
I'm very grateful for this piece. "For an idea to have any merit, it must first appear absurd." said Einstein, and I struggle with hard borders between science, magic, mysticism, religion, borders that are always moving as a result of open-minded inquiry. (A television showing the image of myself as a child might be terrifying 500 years ago.)
I wanted to go to the Monroe Institute; the Monroe Institute may be capitalizing on a single, sensational, element of a greater truth. Right now, I'm just enjoying the ambiguity of thinking about consciousness as external, accepting the dualism theory has failed (it never made intuitive sense), and trying on the idea that consciousness does not simply observe, but is the root of creation.
If life is the universe' ever-creating, infinite possibility, method of understanding itself, the UAP phenomenon may be a creation/catalyst that leads us to understand who we really are. If I am not my thoughts, but the one who observes them, there's more to understand than time to complete the work. Life is awesome.
Thanks.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I thought for sure you were going to nail the contents of that box in an Amazing Kreskin-esque flourish, but I think the ending to your tale was satisfying anyways.
You stated that some people find material atheism to be insufficient for a meaningful life, a claim I have heard many times. I always thought this is a strange conclusion because the universe is chalk full of mystery without having to consent to anything remotely resembling the supernatural. Simply spending any time thinking about the relationship between time and space - even without the requisite training in quantum physics or cosmology - will bend the mind to the edge of understanding and challenge the notion of our very existence. In other words, there's plenty of mysticism to be had without having to worry if one is handing the keys to their consciousness to a deity.
My un-asked-for two cents on atheism and meaning.
at one time, the earth being round, and the centre of our galaxy, would have been considered supernatural, no?
I mean, they called it blasphemous and heretical then because those were the most useful words at the time.
Supernatural has more stigma today given the descension of organized religions.
You’ll no longer be David Webb. You will be Jen Gerson.
I'll sit with that. JG
Too funny, thanks for the laugh.
Is this drivel what my subscription is paying for? Jen's vanity project? WTH guys?
Sounds like someone’s never seen an angel
🤣
I just meditated and saw the angel Castiel. He told me among other things that the every season of the show Supernatural after season five was mid to terrible, oh and that instead of doing journalism The Line is wasting our subscription money funding dumb pet projects.
He suggested the Line's tag line to "The Line is the last best hope for irreverent commentary... Oh and also one of our founders indulging her weird hobby horses on someone else's dime. We like lively writing, and also Jen's half baked metaphysical wanderings. I guess we also reject bullshit... Or something.... Donate now so Jen can travel to Antarctica to snuggle a Penguin. But basically forget about your donation being used for journalism... That's not happening."
Honestly I thought it was kind of wordy... But hey an angel said it so who am I to judge.
Every TV season collapses after year 5. We don't need angelic intervention for that. Jg
You need a 6-pack right now.
Lighten up bud, a nice change from Canada's pathological politics, no ?
Give me the politics. This is worse than the terrible column Gurney wrote about Strange New Worlds being good Star Trek.
Wow. And thank you.
Cynical materialist atheist here, and also a failed meditator. Only been able to maintain the practice for a week or two at a time and never really got anywhere with it. I'm sure I'll take another swing at it soon.
No question some very interesting and unsettling things can happen when people spend days intensely meditating and interacting with each other. That's why meditation retreats can be outright dangerous for some people and it doesn't mean anything supernatural is going on: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/31/1241784635/meditation-vipassana-dangerous-mental-health
Also no question that some people, regardless of the underlying scientific/rational truths, actively seek out supernatural explanations to things that don't require it. Hence the goofy interview with Avi Loeb a couple weeks back and the reappearance of UFO's/UAP's in the news every few years as a new bullshit artist generates attention. Turns out the alien spaceship really is just an interstellar comet. That's not as much fun of an explanation, though!
As far as remote viewing goes, apparently McMoneagle wrote that humans came from creatures somewhat like sea otters rather than primates and were created in a laboratory by creators who "seeded" the earth and then departed in his book The Ultimate Time Machine. Sounds totally legit and not some modern day Nostradamus throwing shit at the wall. If Remote Viewing worked, were all the good ones too shy to collect Randi's prize for 50 years? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
As the saying goes, it's fine to have an open mind, but if you're not careful the damn thing might fall out.
“As far as remote viewing goes, apparently McMoneagle wrote that humans came from creatures somewhat like sea otters rather than primates and were created in a laboratory by creators who "seeded" the earth and then departed in his book The Ultimate Time Machine.”
Whether remote viewing works or not, there’s a time honoured tradition among the CIA and FBI debunking machine to destroy the researchers cred.
Im sure you didnt mean it to, but the above looks textbook!
So the CIA wrote his own book for him to destroy his credibility? Fascinating!
? the only people Ive heard saying its a comet are the same people who seemed determined it had to be one lol.
The faith is strong among the materialists!
I like a world with all this diversity of opinion, no matter how long it takes to escape the stone age.
There was never any reason to believe it was anything other than an interstellar comet, unless you're a jaded astronomer who's bitter that the astronomical community has been snickering at you for positing more and more far-fetched and totally baseless predictions about aliens. The guy has totally torched his reputation in exchange for a bit more media notoriety. Probably not a great trade.
Jen: Might I recommend - or see again - the movie “The men who stared at goats”
This was before your time. My wife took part in one of her college courses in Ottawa at the urging of the professor in a course that I believe involved psychedelics. Same time frame (1960s) where the CIA allegedly fried assorted people’s brains is similar experiments at a Montreal Institute.
Awesome, and illuminating, says the secret Illuminati. One minor complaint - I am unable to listen to this as it is read-only.
Interesting read. Such a retreat would be a waste on me because I have no mind's eye (aphantasia). Is that perhaps what you are referring to when you say the following? "and individuals who did not have a spiritual or artistic inner library, tended to swim in the black, or to "click out" during the sessions — the term used for falling asleep." I definitely lack an inner library, although I am rather artistic.
Ive met folks w aphantasia who’ve become expert at finding the place usually filled by thoughts.
Not sure I follow. Do you mean “place usually filled by images”?
This was a very interesting read. I found myself at various times wondering if that would be something I'd enjoy - or if I'd find myself going insane in an environment like that. Part of me is intensely curious, but another part of me thinks I'm wise to stay away.
I'd love a follow-up down the road to see if this is something that fell into the basket of "interesting but not life changing" or if as time passes if your memories or perceptions of it change. I definitely believe in altered states of consciousness, and have seen some interesting things while floating that I can't explain. But for whatever reason, your description about the emotional intensity and challenges you had to navigate internally during the week you were there makes me think I will settle for reading your experience and don't need to go experience it myself. I am curious to see if this ends up being one of those pivotal life moments though.
These days, I often see the flame of a candle in my mind's eye. It was a conscious effort to put it there. I believe it is my subconscious mind that allows it to stay . I'm an immaterialist, like Berkeley, I believe all of our physical reality must be experienced by a single observer in order to exist. You neared the threshold of the reality beyond what can be recorded and observed. One last thing, psychosis can affect anyone. Careful with that.
Ms. Gerson: Perhaps you will gain some insights as to your views about the box by reading about the Schrödinger's cat paradox. Or maybe you already have and that informed your decision.