Great article, Jen but I would also argue Chinese influenced and associated corruption runs deeper than you suggest. The amount of dark money laundered through Vancouver casinos, Canadian banking and real estate being a prime example. Also, CSIS and the DEA know that while the fentanyl isn’t being made in Canada, much of the import of ingredients, command and control is in Canada while Triads collaborate with Mexican cartels. So, the “bad” stuff is happening in the US but our weak laws are enabling it. Also, if you look at Vancouver, Toronto & Ottawa political circles, you can easily find examples of people who can be “subjected” to compromise or seem sympathetic to Chinese interests.
It's good to be aware of the decades of having China take advantage of our goodwill, cultural outreach initiatives, etc., starting back in the eighties with basically opening our universities to international "visiting scholars", who then (surprise surprise) returned to China and gave it all up. And, as you mentioned, there are the gaps in our border security, huge gaps in policing capacity. There was naivety then, which continues today. Your comment, and this article, encourage me that we are beginning to take this problem seriously.
Does anyone remember Nortel? It once had the largest market capitalization on the TSX. Suddenly it was gone and we now have Huawei….and those links from the Winnipeg Level 4 lab to PRC researchers, sample theft and Wuhan sure seem problematic. There is more complicity and influence than we care to admit.
Agreed! I had a bit of a second row seat to the show. John Roth should go down as one of the worst business leaders in Canadian history. Interestingly, Nortel did exactly what Nvidia is doing today - loaning money to it's customers to buy it's stuff. When the dotcom crash hit and their customers (many of which were start ups) went out of business, they not only lost the revenue, but their gear immediately flooded the market at $0.10 on the dollar. Double whammy and virtually instant collapse as their other traditional customers bought up that gear instead of new stuff.
Two things can be true at the same time. Nortel may have had hubris... and Nortel WAS also killed by Chinese spying. Ask around to find out how much work the Canadian government had to do to secure and "clean out" the buildings after taking it over.
And greed. I’ve spoken to a few people who worked at Nortel. The company’s problems went way beyond IP theft. I’m not dismissing IP theft or defending Huawei.
Not the same thing at all. Canada has laws that require the prosecution to let perpetrators know the details of their charges after they have been laid. The cartels and triads use this to stay ahead of prosecution, they shut down their distribution lines, burner phones, etc., etc., and start all over again and this is a chronic problem. Check out Sam Cooper’s pieces on this same platform he has extensive detail and how American enforcement agencies have come to the point that they don’t trust Canadian law and this is why they want to exclude us from the five eyes group. A simple Google search will get you there.
> So, the “bad” stuff is happening in the US but our weak laws are enabling it.
So ... pretty much the exact same thing as when America's weak laws on guns enabling the "bad stuff" of organized crime, (including fentanyl smuggling) in Canada?
Not that this makes organized crime activity in Canada "good" and not that it means we should be pro-fentanyl.
And not that there's ANY expectation that the Americans will give a crap about how their policies arm organized crime in Canada. (They don't and likely never will care because their view of guns isn't tied to reality, but rather to a mythological idea that they might one day cosplay as their founding heroes.)
It's just tiresome to listen to their whining and hypocritical blaming about fentanyl while they do the same thing to their neighbour and refuse to even recognize how their arming of Canadian gangs is a problem. And let's face it, if they can't keep drugs out of their prisons, they're never going to keep drugs out of their country as long as their citizens keep demanding to consume them.
Completely agree with the realism of this piece. I'd add that cracking down on foreign interference shouldn’t be about “pleasing” the Americans or anyone else, but about protecting the national interest. Given our deepening ties with frenemies like China, India, the Gulf states, and the US we have to acknowledge that these relationships come with strings attached and act accordingly. Ignoring that trade-off is denying the existence of the amoral, interest-driven world order we now live in.
I'd agree, but we face a new threat to our south. And at least the chances of the Chinese stealing our territory is zero. You can't say that of the American threat.
We need to adapt to the new reality, not plan for solving the problems of 2010. So like Jen said... push Canadian interests by going up the middle.
According to some Chinese and ethnic Chinese sources, Xi is also bat shit crazy. It is just that both he and the CCP are very well trained at hiding he truth.
We’re not. That claim is just false. Full stop. You’re just being selective with what you’re looking at.
We’ve made concessions to Mr. Trump. At the same time, we have refused concessions to Mr. Xi. Both quickly and slowly. And we have done the reverse with both men both quickly and slow slowly.
But you can make any claim you like if you’re just selective with your evidence.
and neither are friends, so we should focus on our own interests.
My point is discussing moral hierarchies is now moot and it's easier to negotiate with an enemy driven by self-interest than a man-child who's fickle choices are driven my the tragicomedy taking place in what passes for his mind.
The likelihood is that Trump will burn himself out flailing around doing stupid shit until he has no credibility left, be neutered by a Democrat midterm win, tied up in inevitable impeachment proceedings for the last two years of his mandate, become so senile that he has to be removed from office, die of old age before his term ends, or at the latest be forced to leave at the beginning of 2029. I don't see JD Vance or any heir Republican winning an election at that point seeing as Trump didn't run on really any of the dumbass shit he's pulled since his re-election last year.
China will have the same leader for decades most likely, continuity after that, and plans that operate on 100+ year timeframes.
The US situation is for now. Any concessions to China will haunt us forever.
Serious question for Jen - unless I'm misreading it, your column seems to suggest that CCP influence over Canada is not all that deep, and perhaps is a more recent phenomenon.
So, all the digging that Sam Cooper, Terry Glavin, (and, very occasionally, the G&M) has been doing (and posting) about ChiCom influence in Canada stretching back decades through all major parties, businesses, NGO's, etc. is overblown?
I don't get it. From what I've read from the above sources, the CCP rot goes back (at least) to Trudeau The Elder, and continues through all Lib and Con governments to present, as well as through our provincial and municipal governments, businesses, financial institutions, law enforcement, and NGO's - mostly in vote-and-seat-rich urban jurisdictions.
I follow these writers as well, and believe they have a clear-eyed understanding of what’s at stake and the games being played by Ottawa. Carney isn’t going to get a benefit of doubt from a lot of people, certainly not many in Alberta.
He who claimed that he’s the premier deal maker & negotiator has shown himself to be weak & ineffectual. If he couldn’t make a solid start to the negotiating table w the US, I highly doubt he ‘can handle’ the Chinese. They’ll throw him a few crumbs to get an even firmer toe hold in Canada.
“Wouldn’t it be ironic if the Americans were, through their own foreign policy choices, pushing us into a closer relationship with China — and then using the fact of that closeness as an excuse to further hobble us financially and politically? It’s sharks and pirates in every direction; north, east, west and south.”
Bingo! We need to be extremely careful about our engagement with both powers. We should keep a wary distance from both and increase engagement with other democratic middle powers in Europe and Asia. I see both Beijing and the Trump Administration as malevolent powers seeking to subjugate us in one way or another.
Yes, exactly. And also provoke Trump into making some jabs against Canada so the CBC, MSM, the "Liberal" ecosystem (cesspool) have some fodder to manufacture another fake crisis shrouded in purple bullshit so the halfwit saps will vote them into power again.
What if they are not all bad guys? Or, what if-due to our decisions of the past decade- we have to pick a bad guy with whom we must ally?
Canada has chosen the path of decline; it was not thrust upon us.
What leverage have we left? The North.
What is the play? We "give" the United States the Canadian North. We expect in exchange full military protection, respect & enforcement of our sovereignty, and zero trade barriers, including tariffs & non-tariff barriers to trade. We get full access to the US market, and they receive the same in reverse.
The alternative, I am afraid, is a further decline in our standards of living, and a hastening of our collective degradation of national standing, compromised sovereignty, and civil society.
Pirates in every direction is a great way to put it. Canada needs to have some backbone now and make some real impactful decisions and I don’t know if Carney is ready for those without committing political suicide.
Thank you for this balanced piece. All the major powers are now bad faith actors. Navigating that to retain sovereignty and our own character will be the biggest challenge our government has faced in decades.
The US didn't push Canada to seek closer ties with China, we did most of the dirty work ourselves. The liberals under Justin Trudeau and now under Mark Carney have brought this country to its knees economically with unsustainable budget deficits. Turns out, budgets don't balance themselves. Canada should be one of the most prosperous nations on earth yet here we are, after 10 plus years of liberal rule on the verge of bankruptcy with millions of Canadians unable to support themselves, line ups at food banks, homeless people and tent cities everywhere, these are not the signs of a healthy, prosperous economy. I'm not surprised Canada is seeking its fortune on different shores but let's be clear eyed as to what brought us here and Donald Trump, with all his faults, irreverence and disregard for the rules we're used to functioning under has nothing to do with our precarious situation, we did that all on our own. I can't blame Carney for looking at China but I question the motives for doing so and the hairs on the back of my neck tell me Canada and Canadians are not the prime motivation for trying to broaden commerce with a less than upstanding regime.
Brookfield has significant business ties with China, however Brookfield stronger ties to the US because of substantial investment in the US. Carney is also on record saying that if the green movement fails there is still a lot of money to be made. Carney was on the verge of being charged under US antitrust legislation but became Canada's PM instead.
So, as far as Carney's personal finances go, it doesn't matter to him who he panders to, however, how many countries does he need to replace a neighbour that buys $3.6 billion in goods every single day?
Is he guilty of a crime? Is he guilty of treason? It is fair to say that he hasn't be in court to prove that he is guilty of any crime, but you can't blame people for following the dots and coming to their own conclusion.
Bad choices all around. This is a lose-lose for us in every aspect. Stickhandling this will be Carney's legacy, I hope he is as smart as everyone tells me he is. I also can't help but keep coming back to a scenario where, despite the dealings of DJT to this point and how terrible it's been we have to keep grinding a way to a long-term solution to our relationship with the US because geographically, culturally, and "values" based we are so connected and will always be. There has to be a tolerable solution in there somewhere. I just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. I hope that happens soon.
This isn’t really about values vs. pragmatism or even canola-for-EVs. What China likely wants is a currency conversation: financing and settling a long-stalled pipeline to tidewater, potentially outside the petro-dollar system. That would be a strategic win far larger than any tariff tweak.
Seen through that lens, this trip isn’t just “playing powers off each other.” It’s Canada being invited into a unit-of-account discussion with consequences well beyond trade optics. That’s the risk — and the leverage — that deserves more daylight.
Ahead of CUSMA renegotiation, the Carney visit does not send good signals to the Trump administration. Both China and the US have economies that are 10x ours and therefore some sort of agreement is bound to be on their terms and not ours. There is also Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan however all options have to go through otherwise crowded ports on the west coast.
Great article, Jen but I would also argue Chinese influenced and associated corruption runs deeper than you suggest. The amount of dark money laundered through Vancouver casinos, Canadian banking and real estate being a prime example. Also, CSIS and the DEA know that while the fentanyl isn’t being made in Canada, much of the import of ingredients, command and control is in Canada while Triads collaborate with Mexican cartels. So, the “bad” stuff is happening in the US but our weak laws are enabling it. Also, if you look at Vancouver, Toronto & Ottawa political circles, you can easily find examples of people who can be “subjected” to compromise or seem sympathetic to Chinese interests.
It's good to be aware of the decades of having China take advantage of our goodwill, cultural outreach initiatives, etc., starting back in the eighties with basically opening our universities to international "visiting scholars", who then (surprise surprise) returned to China and gave it all up. And, as you mentioned, there are the gaps in our border security, huge gaps in policing capacity. There was naivety then, which continues today. Your comment, and this article, encourage me that we are beginning to take this problem seriously.
Does anyone remember Nortel? It once had the largest market capitalization on the TSX. Suddenly it was gone and we now have Huawei….and those links from the Winnipeg Level 4 lab to PRC researchers, sample theft and Wuhan sure seem problematic. There is more complicity and influence than we care to admit.
You might want to do a bit of research on that. Huawei became the second largest telecom company in a rather large hurry following Nortel’s “sudden” collapse. A simple Google search might help you. Hubris? Seriously? 😂https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=noretel%20canada%20ip%20theft&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5
Nortel was killed by hubris. No conspiracy theory is needed.
Agreed! I had a bit of a second row seat to the show. John Roth should go down as one of the worst business leaders in Canadian history. Interestingly, Nortel did exactly what Nvidia is doing today - loaning money to it's customers to buy it's stuff. When the dotcom crash hit and their customers (many of which were start ups) went out of business, they not only lost the revenue, but their gear immediately flooded the market at $0.10 on the dollar. Double whammy and virtually instant collapse as their other traditional customers bought up that gear instead of new stuff.
Two things can be true at the same time. Nortel may have had hubris... and Nortel WAS also killed by Chinese spying. Ask around to find out how much work the Canadian government had to do to secure and "clean out" the buildings after taking it over.
You might want to do a bit of research on that. Huawei became the second largest telecom company in a rather large hurry following Nortel’s “sudden” collapse. A simple Google search might help you. Hubris? Seriously? 😂https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=noretel%20canada%20ip%20theft&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5
And greed. I’ve spoken to a few people who worked at Nortel. The company’s problems went way beyond IP theft. I’m not dismissing IP theft or defending Huawei.
Nuance again. That's why I appreciate the comments on The Line :)
Nortel! Haven't heard that word forever.
Don't give Canadians too much credit. The majority seem to be happy to go along totally unaware of the dumpster fire around them.
Yes. That is an ugly blemish on the face of this nation. So easily removed ...... it seems though that the "Liberals" like it that way.
sounds like CIA driven bot farm stuff lol
Not the same thing at all. Canada has laws that require the prosecution to let perpetrators know the details of their charges after they have been laid. The cartels and triads use this to stay ahead of prosecution, they shut down their distribution lines, burner phones, etc., etc., and start all over again and this is a chronic problem. Check out Sam Cooper’s pieces on this same platform he has extensive detail and how American enforcement agencies have come to the point that they don’t trust Canadian law and this is why they want to exclude us from the five eyes group. A simple Google search will get you there.
> So, the “bad” stuff is happening in the US but our weak laws are enabling it.
So ... pretty much the exact same thing as when America's weak laws on guns enabling the "bad stuff" of organized crime, (including fentanyl smuggling) in Canada?
Not that this makes organized crime activity in Canada "good" and not that it means we should be pro-fentanyl.
And not that there's ANY expectation that the Americans will give a crap about how their policies arm organized crime in Canada. (They don't and likely never will care because their view of guns isn't tied to reality, but rather to a mythological idea that they might one day cosplay as their founding heroes.)
It's just tiresome to listen to their whining and hypocritical blaming about fentanyl while they do the same thing to their neighbour and refuse to even recognize how their arming of Canadian gangs is a problem. And let's face it, if they can't keep drugs out of their prisons, they're never going to keep drugs out of their country as long as their citizens keep demanding to consume them.
Cdn-US organized crime is the incumbent, lol, as anyone in ON, QC knows.
Completely agree with the realism of this piece. I'd add that cracking down on foreign interference shouldn’t be about “pleasing” the Americans or anyone else, but about protecting the national interest. Given our deepening ties with frenemies like China, India, the Gulf states, and the US we have to acknowledge that these relationships come with strings attached and act accordingly. Ignoring that trade-off is denying the existence of the amoral, interest-driven world order we now live in.
Don’t let the Chinese build or buy anything (companies) more in this country. Period
I'd agree, but we face a new threat to our south. And at least the chances of the Chinese stealing our territory is zero. You can't say that of the American threat.
We need to adapt to the new reality, not plan for solving the problems of 2010. So like Jen said... push Canadian interests by going up the middle.
Why are we so quick to appease Xi but not Trump?
Xi is sane. Trump is bat shit crazy
According to some Chinese and ethnic Chinese sources, Xi is also bat shit crazy. It is just that both he and the CCP are very well trained at hiding he truth.
and so... Republicans are bad at hiding the truth? lol
We’re not. That claim is just false. Full stop. You’re just being selective with what you’re looking at.
We’ve made concessions to Mr. Trump. At the same time, we have refused concessions to Mr. Xi. Both quickly and slowly. And we have done the reverse with both men both quickly and slow slowly.
But you can make any claim you like if you’re just selective with your evidence.
appeasing?
how's negotiating with a customer appeasing?
fuck trump, he's garbage and mentally unstable so there's no negotiating.
Are you talking China or the US? Both are customers.
and neither are friends, so we should focus on our own interests.
My point is discussing moral hierarchies is now moot and it's easier to negotiate with an enemy driven by self-interest than a man-child who's fickle choices are driven my the tragicomedy taking place in what passes for his mind.
The likelihood is that Trump will burn himself out flailing around doing stupid shit until he has no credibility left, be neutered by a Democrat midterm win, tied up in inevitable impeachment proceedings for the last two years of his mandate, become so senile that he has to be removed from office, die of old age before his term ends, or at the latest be forced to leave at the beginning of 2029. I don't see JD Vance or any heir Republican winning an election at that point seeing as Trump didn't run on really any of the dumbass shit he's pulled since his re-election last year.
China will have the same leader for decades most likely, continuity after that, and plans that operate on 100+ year timeframes.
The US situation is for now. Any concessions to China will haunt us forever.
Or he will seize power.
For me, we are a thousand miles from being a middle power. In order to be a middle power you need power and we are defenseless.
How about a middle fart ?
Serious question for Jen - unless I'm misreading it, your column seems to suggest that CCP influence over Canada is not all that deep, and perhaps is a more recent phenomenon.
So, all the digging that Sam Cooper, Terry Glavin, (and, very occasionally, the G&M) has been doing (and posting) about ChiCom influence in Canada stretching back decades through all major parties, businesses, NGO's, etc. is overblown?
I don't get it. From what I've read from the above sources, the CCP rot goes back (at least) to Trudeau The Elder, and continues through all Lib and Con governments to present, as well as through our provincial and municipal governments, businesses, financial institutions, law enforcement, and NGO's - mostly in vote-and-seat-rich urban jurisdictions.
Am I missing something?
I follow these writers as well, and believe they have a clear-eyed understanding of what’s at stake and the games being played by Ottawa. Carney isn’t going to get a benefit of doubt from a lot of people, certainly not many in Alberta.
He who claimed that he’s the premier deal maker & negotiator has shown himself to be weak & ineffectual. If he couldn’t make a solid start to the negotiating table w the US, I highly doubt he ‘can handle’ the Chinese. They’ll throw him a few crumbs to get an even firmer toe hold in Canada.
Very thorough job. I would have added the Canadian transfer of germ warfare technology to the PRC via a mysterious Chinese couple.
“Wouldn’t it be ironic if the Americans were, through their own foreign policy choices, pushing us into a closer relationship with China — and then using the fact of that closeness as an excuse to further hobble us financially and politically? It’s sharks and pirates in every direction; north, east, west and south.”
Bingo! We need to be extremely careful about our engagement with both powers. We should keep a wary distance from both and increase engagement with other democratic middle powers in Europe and Asia. I see both Beijing and the Trump Administration as malevolent powers seeking to subjugate us in one way or another.
What if the Liberals are using supply management to poison trade talks so they could justify getting back into bed with China?
Yes, exactly. And also provoke Trump into making some jabs against Canada so the CBC, MSM, the "Liberal" ecosystem (cesspool) have some fodder to manufacture another fake crisis shrouded in purple bullshit so the halfwit saps will vote them into power again.
What if they are not all bad guys? Or, what if-due to our decisions of the past decade- we have to pick a bad guy with whom we must ally?
Canada has chosen the path of decline; it was not thrust upon us.
What leverage have we left? The North.
What is the play? We "give" the United States the Canadian North. We expect in exchange full military protection, respect & enforcement of our sovereignty, and zero trade barriers, including tariffs & non-tariff barriers to trade. We get full access to the US market, and they receive the same in reverse.
The alternative, I am afraid, is a further decline in our standards of living, and a hastening of our collective degradation of national standing, compromised sovereignty, and civil society.
I appreciate the clear-eyed-no-bullshit perspective. Keep it coming!
Pirates in every direction is a great way to put it. Canada needs to have some backbone now and make some real impactful decisions and I don’t know if Carney is ready for those without committing political suicide.
Agree. Thankfully, it’s Carney at the helm and not PP.
PP would have done whatever it took to get a trade deal with the US. Carney is doing whatever it takes to get a trade deal with China.
Yup, right into 51st state status.
Don't be silly. China only has 34 states.
You fibbing right ? But then again you may be a very poor judge of character.
Someone is, clearly.
The good news, Trump has an expiry date. The bad news, the CCP does not.
Unfortunately, while Trump has an expiry date, the MAGA/America First movement has an indefinite future. We need to keep that in mind.
Thank you for this balanced piece. All the major powers are now bad faith actors. Navigating that to retain sovereignty and our own character will be the biggest challenge our government has faced in decades.
Cheery dispatch, sigh. But thank you for paying attention so I don’t have to go looking for this info and insight in 5 different places.
I am sorry. I am going to write something cheery soon, I promise. JG
Canadians will be forced to face reality at some point.
We can do so on our own terms or, wait until reality is thrust upon us.
The US didn't push Canada to seek closer ties with China, we did most of the dirty work ourselves. The liberals under Justin Trudeau and now under Mark Carney have brought this country to its knees economically with unsustainable budget deficits. Turns out, budgets don't balance themselves. Canada should be one of the most prosperous nations on earth yet here we are, after 10 plus years of liberal rule on the verge of bankruptcy with millions of Canadians unable to support themselves, line ups at food banks, homeless people and tent cities everywhere, these are not the signs of a healthy, prosperous economy. I'm not surprised Canada is seeking its fortune on different shores but let's be clear eyed as to what brought us here and Donald Trump, with all his faults, irreverence and disregard for the rules we're used to functioning under has nothing to do with our precarious situation, we did that all on our own. I can't blame Carney for looking at China but I question the motives for doing so and the hairs on the back of my neck tell me Canada and Canadians are not the prime motivation for trying to broaden commerce with a less than upstanding regime.
Brookfield has significant business ties with China, however Brookfield stronger ties to the US because of substantial investment in the US. Carney is also on record saying that if the green movement fails there is still a lot of money to be made. Carney was on the verge of being charged under US antitrust legislation but became Canada's PM instead.
So, as far as Carney's personal finances go, it doesn't matter to him who he panders to, however, how many countries does he need to replace a neighbour that buys $3.6 billion in goods every single day?
Is he guilty of a crime? Is he guilty of treason? It is fair to say that he hasn't be in court to prove that he is guilty of any crime, but you can't blame people for following the dots and coming to their own conclusion.
Bad choices all around. This is a lose-lose for us in every aspect. Stickhandling this will be Carney's legacy, I hope he is as smart as everyone tells me he is. I also can't help but keep coming back to a scenario where, despite the dealings of DJT to this point and how terrible it's been we have to keep grinding a way to a long-term solution to our relationship with the US because geographically, culturally, and "values" based we are so connected and will always be. There has to be a tolerable solution in there somewhere. I just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. I hope that happens soon.
Strong piece Jen, but the missing frame is money.
This isn’t really about values vs. pragmatism or even canola-for-EVs. What China likely wants is a currency conversation: financing and settling a long-stalled pipeline to tidewater, potentially outside the petro-dollar system. That would be a strategic win far larger than any tariff tweak.
Seen through that lens, this trip isn’t just “playing powers off each other.” It’s Canada being invited into a unit-of-account discussion with consequences well beyond trade optics. That’s the risk — and the leverage — that deserves more daylight.
This is a very good insight.
Ahead of CUSMA renegotiation, the Carney visit does not send good signals to the Trump administration. Both China and the US have economies that are 10x ours and therefore some sort of agreement is bound to be on their terms and not ours. There is also Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan however all options have to go through otherwise crowded ports on the west coast.
In short, this a boondoggle.