Well this was terrible. I enjoy good criticism that crosses partisan boundaries but come on man, that wasn’t observation, that was spin. Which, fine, but let’s not pretend otherwise.
“Carney’s plans and ideas are much more substantial than Poilievre, that’s why he’s winning” good lord. Couldn’t listen after that. Glad Jen called him on it.
That's where I got off the bus, too. I also appreciate JG's push-back.
My guess is Ling isn't following the Poilievre campaign or he would know that much of the early Carney policy that he lauds was taken from Poilievre and the more recent policy was taken from Trudeau.
The stacked concrete boxes housing policy is all Carney and Brookfield. I wish Poilievre had tried "You have an option, sir. In fact you have 409,300 options."
Well look, criticism of the Tory campaign is fair and justified. But the comparison between the two campaigns and Ling’s absolute fawning over the Liberals was just incorrect and nauseating.
The Liberals are trying to make the ballot question Trump and are working very hard to get Canadians to think about that instead of their record. That’s not a PP talking point, that’s just the strategy. Which is a fine strategy that’s probably going to work, but you cannot ignore the cynicism of the Liberal campaign or cloak it in terms of “meeting the moment.” It’s a tactic, that is all.
It’s not even a good tactic, imo - any suggestion by Carney that he can negotiate with Trump or project strength into the relationship is so laughable and pathetic. It’s like telling voters he can control or influence the Tasmanian devil. You cannot. And any suggestion otherwise is, at best, fantastical and, at worst, a lie. But you CAN focus on yourself, make this country more agile, etc. A perspective that betrays my political preference, sure, but the Liberal campaign has boiled down to “elbows up” and not much else. It’s disappointing that Mr Ling has gone no deeper into his analysis of Mr Carney and chose instead to engage in the fawning. Hence my characterization of his interview as “terrible.”
And, to be clear, I don’t think Ling is a Liberal bag man. He seems to disdain everyone at various times. But his comments on this podcast were superficial, wrong, and carried an edge that’s hard to ignore.
As a Boomer I accept we greatly contributed to societal issues . Guilty as charged. And this I regret and thus have patiently accepted the constant drum beat on our crimes for many years .
But the youngest Boomers are 60 years old now. Most of us are well into our 70s , even a few 80 years old .
I am wondering when Gen X & Millennials , many of who benefited greatly from help in many, many forms from their Baby Boomer parents, will start to take some responsibility for their own contributions to society’s issues ??
The narrative that we Boomers are so happy and contented fails to consider that many of us are dealing with shrinking lives , loneliness, difficult losses and many health issues. This is not defending our previous mistakes , nor am I asking for forgiveness or sympathy . I am simply asking you to stop glorifying our lives.
It’s time for you to move on . Get engaged , self question , take some responsibility for the failures and challenges ahead .
Why are you not getting out to vote ? You ( Gen X & Millennials) have more votes than Baby Boomers.
You are 41.5% of the population . Baby Boomers are 25% . Exercise your might. Show us how it should be done .
Backward finger pointing is getting tiring and frankly unless there is new revealing information on Baby Boomers’ ills , it just feels lazy.
Adding to this thread, I'll simply note that the rosy, misty-eyed assessment of past Golden Ages seems to be a hazard of being human. My recollection of the 1980s and beyond involved serious, long lasting recessions from about 1979-1982/3 and again from about 1991-1994; a broke government from 1993-2000 (about to see a repeat of that any day now); very tight household finances in my case with a small house and mortgage I could barely cover with a mid-range salary for the time and a house price that at the time was daunting; and on it goes.
When I was growing up (high school and university in the 1970s) people were looking back fondly on the 1950s and early 1960s as a Golden Age, with the 1970s an inflationary disaster accompanied by a frightening stagflation in economic terms.
All to say, things eventually stablised for me and my peers, friends and family, and I have no complaints. But it sure wasn't a life of Caribbean cruises.
Don't worry, we'll shape the world into a mess for our kids over the next 20-30 years before it's their turn. This has been the same since Socrates's day.
The boomers are a unusual cohort in that they were grouped over 18 or 19 birth years, rather than the 14-15 that the other generations are. This, plus the rapid increase in life expectancy in the last century meant that they were "in charge" for longer.
And you don’t find it useful to listen to what non-Conservatives are seeing, and thinking about how that influences the election? Because they get a vote too, and history says there’s more of them than Conservative voters.
If Jen Gerson calls him on comments, good enough for me. I have other ways of productively spending an hour and twelve minutes I'll never get back. I can read through the comments in a few minutes to get a general impression.
1. Not all Baby Boomers are wealthy . 2. I had no generational help with my education or with raising my 3 children . Most of my friends would claim the same .
But we all have provided extensive , ongoing and continuing support to our Gen X children and our grandchildren .
Again not asking you to celebrate that fact just asking you to be informed and honest .
I hate it when people group huge groups of people together because of when they are born. If you divide them up into 12 time periods in a year, you call it astrology. If you divide them up based on what year they are born, you call it ... I don't know what.
Not everyone born in 1964 is exactly like me and we are not like those born between 1946 and 1963. And we are not vastly different from people born in 1965.
I think Justin Ling illustrates how Carney has been surfing a wave of good vibes throughout this campaign. However, he also raises a valid point that Poilievre’s campaign has been hurting itself with an excessively antagonistic approach towards at least some media outlets. It seems like an approach adopted from US campaigns, where a 50-50 electorate means that turning out more of your base than your opponent can translate into victory.
I don’t think that’s likely to work in Canada, where the right wing party usually captures about 40% of the population. It’d be far more useful to pull supporters in from the other parties than try to make up that deficit through turnout. To reach those other voters, you need legacy media that they consume, not the right wing outlets speaking to voters you’ve already got.
I thought you and Justin had a great chat. As someone who wants the Tories to win, I thought he made some good criticisms and made some good points. Is he biased? Maybe. Not as bad as he was on Oppo before the SNC Lavalin scandal. After that broke, he sounded like someone shot his dog! Since then, he has been more critical of the Liberals.
I look forward to the next Oppo reunion on The Line!
The Conservatives underestimate the currency of good manners in Canada and think that trash talking and belittling people is a vote getter. The Boomers and their parents who are still alive are repelled by bad manners and repulsed by the worst offenders like D Trump. The Conservatives had two years to shake off the pit bull image of Poilievre and shape things into a more diplomatic politician. Too late now. The Boomer crowd has settled on boring but seemingly nicer than even Mr. Rogers.
I'm with Faye on the resentment of boomers. First of all, who do you think is going to inherit all the wealth that boomers have amassed, when they die? - which apparently can't happen fast enough for younger folks. Should boomers start looking for charitable options and estate planning that avoids passing assets to the kids who seem somewhat....unappreciative?
Second, if you want to buy a home, figure out an occupation that allows you to work somewhere other than Toronto or the Lower Mainland of BC. Lots of jobs - good jobs - available in (for example) the Interior of BC and a very nice detached home here costs $800,000 to $900,000. In central Alberta, that home sells for $400,000. So yes, planning and initiative and a willingness to get out of the big city might help young people to establish themselves in the lives they would prefer...but are they doing enough to attain?
And third, the only defense against the Canadian "health (not)care system" is either not to need it, OR to become a medical tourist and spend some of that money (that the kids might rather have for themselves) on sustaining life.
Being a victim is very pleasant because it removes all responsibility for doing anything to fix the situation yourself. A good starting place to fix that might be for younger people to get out and vote!
And just as occasionally someone younger condescends to say that "not all boomers are self-satisfied privileged arrogant jerks", I do appreciate that not all younger people believe boomers are evil. I mean, probably, eh? Must be a few that feel that way.
I thought you did not spend enough time on housing policy, but I'm an economist specializing in housing, so not the best judge of that. I would disagree with Mr. Ling on his housing policy assessment. All three major parties' platforms have specific housing policies that are of merit, but they differ in focus and emphasis. The NDP emphasizes short run benefits for lower income Canadians. The Conservatives advocate a much more aggressive policy on regulatory barriers. The Liberals have the most comprehensive policy, in that it addresses many different elements of the housing market problems, but tends to be not aggressive enough in any one area.
And.... nice to hear you two bickering with one another again.
I am no Mark Carney fan. He's from another segment of society who are crazy rich compared to 99.4% of the population. He has received a right proper coronation as is our wont in Canada when it comes to the liberal party. For me, it feels like he covets the job and has for a hell of a long time now. I don't want someone who covets power to be in charge. I want someone who is a leader in touch with most of our day-to-day lives.
I enjoyed the podcast quite a bit because it gets to the fundamental question for me at least: are we running an election based on ideas with a goal of making 99.3% of us improve our lives or not. Just regurgitated Trudeau policies made by the same bunch who has brought Canada low for a decade. And, sorry partisans: Trudeau held an election in a goddamned pandemic. He shouldn't have, but he did. And the folks standing around Carney were all part of that. So, no, you suck. Go sit in the penalty box.
I'm no fan of Pierre Poilievre because we need term limits in this country and he has 20 years of smarmy adolescent behavior and a confrontational communication style. He does not possess what Kinsella calls HOAG: (Hell of a guy). Instead, he has come off for two decades at HOAA: (Hell of an Arse.)
For me, here is why I am looking for an independent to support: the Conservatives completely missed the fact that everything changed when Trump was elected. That peace isn't breaking out anywhere because everywhere, we are seeing messages to the public to prepare themselves for a damned war. While the world was and continues to reconfigure into a world order that no longer exists and a new order that is unstable, armed to the teeth and authoritarian. The Conservative communication strategy of putting out material that insults the average person's intelligence. Is another reason. "Carney Trudeau Liberals" "build the houses, "bring it home" "stop the crime" etc. As a conservative voter, I would love it if the party ditched its rhetorical garbage and show that it is ready to govern.
Well this was terrible. I enjoy good criticism that crosses partisan boundaries but come on man, that wasn’t observation, that was spin. Which, fine, but let’s not pretend otherwise.
“Carney’s plans and ideas are much more substantial than Poilievre, that’s why he’s winning” good lord. Couldn’t listen after that. Glad Jen called him on it.
That's where I got off the bus, too. I also appreciate JG's push-back.
My guess is Ling isn't following the Poilievre campaign or he would know that much of the early Carney policy that he lauds was taken from Poilievre and the more recent policy was taken from Trudeau.
The stacked concrete boxes housing policy is all Carney and Brookfield. I wish Poilievre had tried "You have an option, sir. In fact you have 409,300 options."
Well look, criticism of the Tory campaign is fair and justified. But the comparison between the two campaigns and Ling’s absolute fawning over the Liberals was just incorrect and nauseating.
The Liberals are trying to make the ballot question Trump and are working very hard to get Canadians to think about that instead of their record. That’s not a PP talking point, that’s just the strategy. Which is a fine strategy that’s probably going to work, but you cannot ignore the cynicism of the Liberal campaign or cloak it in terms of “meeting the moment.” It’s a tactic, that is all.
It’s not even a good tactic, imo - any suggestion by Carney that he can negotiate with Trump or project strength into the relationship is so laughable and pathetic. It’s like telling voters he can control or influence the Tasmanian devil. You cannot. And any suggestion otherwise is, at best, fantastical and, at worst, a lie. But you CAN focus on yourself, make this country more agile, etc. A perspective that betrays my political preference, sure, but the Liberal campaign has boiled down to “elbows up” and not much else. It’s disappointing that Mr Ling has gone no deeper into his analysis of Mr Carney and chose instead to engage in the fawning. Hence my characterization of his interview as “terrible.”
And, to be clear, I don’t think Ling is a Liberal bag man. He seems to disdain everyone at various times. But his comments on this podcast were superficial, wrong, and carried an edge that’s hard to ignore.
He is why big media is dead as a door nail in this country.
"Mid career training" grants are the only original idea I've seen in Carney's entire campaign.
That and calling a minor trade inconvenience the worst crisis since the Mongol Hordes swarmed across Asia and into Eastern Europe.
Justin Ling wants us to memory hole the last 10 years. Sod off.
Well said
As a Boomer I accept we greatly contributed to societal issues . Guilty as charged. And this I regret and thus have patiently accepted the constant drum beat on our crimes for many years .
But the youngest Boomers are 60 years old now. Most of us are well into our 70s , even a few 80 years old .
I am wondering when Gen X & Millennials , many of who benefited greatly from help in many, many forms from their Baby Boomer parents, will start to take some responsibility for their own contributions to society’s issues ??
The narrative that we Boomers are so happy and contented fails to consider that many of us are dealing with shrinking lives , loneliness, difficult losses and many health issues. This is not defending our previous mistakes , nor am I asking for forgiveness or sympathy . I am simply asking you to stop glorifying our lives.
It’s time for you to move on . Get engaged , self question , take some responsibility for the failures and challenges ahead .
Why are you not getting out to vote ? You ( Gen X & Millennials) have more votes than Baby Boomers.
You are 41.5% of the population . Baby Boomers are 25% . Exercise your might. Show us how it should be done .
Backward finger pointing is getting tiring and frankly unless there is new revealing information on Baby Boomers’ ills , it just feels lazy.
Adding to this thread, I'll simply note that the rosy, misty-eyed assessment of past Golden Ages seems to be a hazard of being human. My recollection of the 1980s and beyond involved serious, long lasting recessions from about 1979-1982/3 and again from about 1991-1994; a broke government from 1993-2000 (about to see a repeat of that any day now); very tight household finances in my case with a small house and mortgage I could barely cover with a mid-range salary for the time and a house price that at the time was daunting; and on it goes.
When I was growing up (high school and university in the 1970s) people were looking back fondly on the 1950s and early 1960s as a Golden Age, with the 1970s an inflationary disaster accompanied by a frightening stagflation in economic terms.
All to say, things eventually stablised for me and my peers, friends and family, and I have no complaints. But it sure wasn't a life of Caribbean cruises.
Yeah totally agree as a millennial. As a generation we have barely shown up to vote outside of 2015. We could have done a lot more.
Don't worry, we'll shape the world into a mess for our kids over the next 20-30 years before it's their turn. This has been the same since Socrates's day.
The boomers are a unusual cohort in that they were grouped over 18 or 19 birth years, rather than the 14-15 that the other generations are. This, plus the rapid increase in life expectancy in the last century meant that they were "in charge" for longer.
Couldn’t agree more. Will have some of my own take on this later in the comments.
This podcast brought to you by the Liberal Party of Canada.
Just Lib Bling = Justin Ling. Blinkered then. Blinkered now.
Interviewing a lying journo activist. Great one.
And you don’t find it useful to listen to what non-Conservatives are seeing, and thinking about how that influences the election? Because they get a vote too, and history says there’s more of them than Conservative voters.
If Jen Gerson calls him on comments, good enough for me. I have other ways of productively spending an hour and twelve minutes I'll never get back. I can read through the comments in a few minutes to get a general impression.
Not the liars, no. Trying not to pollute info sphere with that from either side is the goal.
OUCH!
And I would like to add two
Points
1. Not all Baby Boomers are wealthy . 2. I had no generational help with my education or with raising my 3 children . Most of my friends would claim the same .
But we all have provided extensive , ongoing and continuing support to our Gen X children and our grandchildren .
Again not asking you to celebrate that fact just asking you to be informed and honest .
I hate it when people group huge groups of people together because of when they are born. If you divide them up into 12 time periods in a year, you call it astrology. If you divide them up based on what year they are born, you call it ... I don't know what.
Not everyone born in 1964 is exactly like me and we are not like those born between 1946 and 1963. And we are not vastly different from people born in 1965.
"If you divide them up based on what year they are born, you call it ... I don't know what." Chinese Zodiac?
I think Justin Ling illustrates how Carney has been surfing a wave of good vibes throughout this campaign. However, he also raises a valid point that Poilievre’s campaign has been hurting itself with an excessively antagonistic approach towards at least some media outlets. It seems like an approach adopted from US campaigns, where a 50-50 electorate means that turning out more of your base than your opponent can translate into victory.
I don’t think that’s likely to work in Canada, where the right wing party usually captures about 40% of the population. It’d be far more useful to pull supporters in from the other parties than try to make up that deficit through turnout. To reach those other voters, you need legacy media that they consume, not the right wing outlets speaking to voters you’ve already got.
I thought you and Justin had a great chat. As someone who wants the Tories to win, I thought he made some good criticisms and made some good points. Is he biased? Maybe. Not as bad as he was on Oppo before the SNC Lavalin scandal. After that broke, he sounded like someone shot his dog! Since then, he has been more critical of the Liberals.
I look forward to the next Oppo reunion on The Line!
The Conservatives underestimate the currency of good manners in Canada and think that trash talking and belittling people is a vote getter. The Boomers and their parents who are still alive are repelled by bad manners and repulsed by the worst offenders like D Trump. The Conservatives had two years to shake off the pit bull image of Poilievre and shape things into a more diplomatic politician. Too late now. The Boomer crowd has settled on boring but seemingly nicer than even Mr. Rogers.
Poilievre is just so fundamentally unlikeable.
I'm with Faye on the resentment of boomers. First of all, who do you think is going to inherit all the wealth that boomers have amassed, when they die? - which apparently can't happen fast enough for younger folks. Should boomers start looking for charitable options and estate planning that avoids passing assets to the kids who seem somewhat....unappreciative?
Second, if you want to buy a home, figure out an occupation that allows you to work somewhere other than Toronto or the Lower Mainland of BC. Lots of jobs - good jobs - available in (for example) the Interior of BC and a very nice detached home here costs $800,000 to $900,000. In central Alberta, that home sells for $400,000. So yes, planning and initiative and a willingness to get out of the big city might help young people to establish themselves in the lives they would prefer...but are they doing enough to attain?
And third, the only defense against the Canadian "health (not)care system" is either not to need it, OR to become a medical tourist and spend some of that money (that the kids might rather have for themselves) on sustaining life.
Being a victim is very pleasant because it removes all responsibility for doing anything to fix the situation yourself. A good starting place to fix that might be for younger people to get out and vote!
And just as occasionally someone younger condescends to say that "not all boomers are self-satisfied privileged arrogant jerks", I do appreciate that not all younger people believe boomers are evil. I mean, probably, eh? Must be a few that feel that way.
I thought you did not spend enough time on housing policy, but I'm an economist specializing in housing, so not the best judge of that. I would disagree with Mr. Ling on his housing policy assessment. All three major parties' platforms have specific housing policies that are of merit, but they differ in focus and emphasis. The NDP emphasizes short run benefits for lower income Canadians. The Conservatives advocate a much more aggressive policy on regulatory barriers. The Liberals have the most comprehensive policy, in that it addresses many different elements of the housing market problems, but tends to be not aggressive enough in any one area.
And.... nice to hear you two bickering with one another again.
"Tin pot dictator?" Good Lord, Ling.
Ok Jenn. Some of us boomers are well aware of how hard everything is for subsequent generations (except, perhaps, yours). Lay off
I am no Mark Carney fan. He's from another segment of society who are crazy rich compared to 99.4% of the population. He has received a right proper coronation as is our wont in Canada when it comes to the liberal party. For me, it feels like he covets the job and has for a hell of a long time now. I don't want someone who covets power to be in charge. I want someone who is a leader in touch with most of our day-to-day lives.
I enjoyed the podcast quite a bit because it gets to the fundamental question for me at least: are we running an election based on ideas with a goal of making 99.3% of us improve our lives or not. Just regurgitated Trudeau policies made by the same bunch who has brought Canada low for a decade. And, sorry partisans: Trudeau held an election in a goddamned pandemic. He shouldn't have, but he did. And the folks standing around Carney were all part of that. So, no, you suck. Go sit in the penalty box.
I'm no fan of Pierre Poilievre because we need term limits in this country and he has 20 years of smarmy adolescent behavior and a confrontational communication style. He does not possess what Kinsella calls HOAG: (Hell of a guy). Instead, he has come off for two decades at HOAA: (Hell of an Arse.)
For me, here is why I am looking for an independent to support: the Conservatives completely missed the fact that everything changed when Trump was elected. That peace isn't breaking out anywhere because everywhere, we are seeing messages to the public to prepare themselves for a damned war. While the world was and continues to reconfigure into a world order that no longer exists and a new order that is unstable, armed to the teeth and authoritarian. The Conservative communication strategy of putting out material that insults the average person's intelligence. Is another reason. "Carney Trudeau Liberals" "build the houses, "bring it home" "stop the crime" etc. As a conservative voter, I would love it if the party ditched its rhetorical garbage and show that it is ready to govern.
#NotAllBoomers