First off. Huge thanks for Dr. Huebert for coming on. I really enjoyed and appreciated his participation. Jen I thought you did a really good job challenging some of the arguments he made as well. Every time my blood pressure would start to rise you seemed to articulated the counterpoint that I was hoping for. A few points I would like to add in.
1. You’re only as good as your last shift. Harkening back to Canada’s WW2 glory is like harkening back to the 80’s Oilers. Canada has mismanaged itself into a multi-decade of darkness. Until it proves itself otherwise, it’s not the same team. History can provide a good template and motivation, but it is not indicative of current ability.
2. None of this current situation should be a surprise. The US has been asking nicely (and we’ve been agreeing!) for a very long time. We’ve known of the issue (Harper had a plan) - but have done nothing. Should the US just keep trying the same tack despite its lack of results?
3. I cringed during the part where Dr. Huebert discussed the US should continue to support us so they could continue to use our bases to defend our sovereignty with American treasure and blood… while we are at the same time (and well put Jen) entirely useless. Ouch.
4. The argument that “we have the ability to do this” (being strengthen our armed forces in short and dramatic order) cannot be used as a supportive argument in rebutting America’s current position to Canada. If our current government’s track record is indicative of anything, it’s rampant and systemic inertia, mismanagement and incompetence. As a rule they are not able to get anything completed or done. Although they did manage to fire, mis-hire or humiliate much of our top military brass over the last 10 years. So I guess there’s that? But truly, talk is cheap and we’re out of people willing to listen. It’s either do it or lose it.
The reason we are "useless" comes down to what Canadians think will keep the country together. That being "bribes of butter" over guns. You have a country held together basically by appeasing the cultural values of one of the most anti-gun cultures on earth (many would argue one of the most feminine as well) so of course the choice is Old Age Security over border security.
Referring to WW2, which ended 80 yrs ago - pushing a century, is nonsensical. If we have to reach that far back (for anything) we’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for plaudits.
Thanks for pointing that out-- you're entirely correct -- I was referring to Dr Huebert as the "bright Canadian who doesn't get it". (Edited above for clarity)
Jenn you might want to interview Sam Cooper, author of Wilful Blindness if you think the border drug issue is manufactured by Trump. There is an under reported problem of drugs and money laundering in Canada which preceded the Trump administration. American law enforcement and RCMP are very aware of it. The rest of us should be too.
There is a "core Canada" and there is the periphery. The further from the core the less the Canadian establishment cares about it. The core is the Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto triangle and the heart of the core is the Ottawa Valley. That is the "real Canada."
They might not say it like this, but they show it in actions and in what they care about.
The Russians, Chinese and Americans have figured it out. They think Canada's establishment doesn't care about the Arctic as much as they do, and they are probably right.
While Harper was PM, every summer he would go north to visit and view operation Nanook. Yes it was a photo op, but he at least he showed support. Harper proposed the development of Nanisivik on north end of Baffin Island as a RCN forward fueling base. After languishing through most of the Justin era it looks like Nanisivik will finally be operational this coming summer.
Milo, they don't care about the Arctic and the don't care about "outer Canada" i.e. the Prairies, BC, the Atlantic. They give lip service to all of we non-corers but they really don't mean it.
The peacekeeping myth is an odd one. It's completely to feed a positive narrative for Quebec, a culture which is anti-war (and some would dare say "feminine") at the expense of the country as a whole and our image to the rest of the world. That of course feeds into the technocracy can save the world ethic which is core to the Canadian left. (If everyone had a university degree we would achieve world peace)
"Don't worry, sure Canada has a military but they are mostly about participating in UN peacekeeping."
Dr. Huebert has reconfirmed my view that Canada’s anti-Americanism is not helpful, especially from a military perspective. Andrew Coyne also made the point from an economic perspective. It could be argued that the first national project we start, and finish, is the North warning renewal/replacement. Second should be acquiring more F-35’s sooner, and enough to maintain full squadrons, on a rotational basis, at both Iqaluit and Inuvik.
Plus additional Aurora maritime patrol craft to patrol the Arctic all through the July to late October ice free Navigation season. They could be stationed in Iqaluit and/or Inuvik. Logistically it would be difficult to maintain full squadrons in Iqaluit and Inuvik. For now in Inuvik, I believe its 2 CF18's can be forward deployed as is necessary.
Great conversation! Our weaknesses are many. our failed justice system and ineffective laws in addition to our military miscalculation are really starting to show. The time to get serious is yesterday.
Please do not refer to a "justice" system It is a legal system. The legal system is working in PRECISELY the way that it is intended to do, i.e. it follows the laws precisely.
The point is that it is a LEGAL SYSTEM and any relationship to a justice system is purely coincidental.
Yes totally agree comparing Canada's military strength during WWI or WWII irrelevant, as it is for any country that participated in those conflicts. Non of the Allied countries today have a military comparable in numbers to that era, including USA.
But it pains me that apparently many Canadians disregard the CAF contribution to the NATO Stabilization Force from mid 1990's to 2004 where up to 2000 CAF members participated at any one time. And it really pains me that Canadians, including Jen, do not recognize the CAF participation in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2014 where over 40,000 Canadians served, 158 died and to date over 200 returning veterans have committed suicide.
CAF members showed up in Afghanistan in jungle camo; with Leopard tanks that were not suitable for the climate and terrain; vehicles vulnerable to IED's; and RCAF with no heavy lift long haul aircraft and also no troop carrying helicopters. In short order because the political will was there with the Harper government, CAF members received desert camo; Leopard 2 tanks; vehicles more resistant to IED's; CH 147 Chinook helicopters; and as Dr. Huebert stated Canada also bought C17 cargo planes. In the end CAF members were well respected by our allies and proved they were just as capable as any military unit.
As Dr. Huebert stated, Canadians lack of knowledge of our military history is a reflection of our education system.
America is not trying to weaken us. They are trying to toughen us up. And that, like military boot camp, requires tearing down to build back up. It will not be pretty and a lot of people will complain, but they are the weak. Is Canada weak or are we a capable, strong country?
Canada has with the attacks from both Trudeaus become a weak, doddering hypocrite of a country, committing economic and societal suicide supervised by the Trudeauist "Liberals", NDP eagerly assisting. In the next 4 years Canada will produce a vast amount of strongly worded bafflegab and very little actual action. Substantive action requires lots of sweaty work, and Canada the Kannotkistan don't do "work" no more. Canada is no longer a strong, capable country.
"In the next 4 years Canada will produce a vast amount of strongly worded bafflegab and very little actual action."
For example, just look at the incredible moral outrage right now and all the assertions that all we have to do is to eliminate interprovincial trade barriers, strengthen the military, develop new markets, yada, yada, yada and then compare those assertions to actual concrete plans that have been announced, even if they haven't yet occurred. We can't even get the announcements out - and that was the one strength in the Face Painter's government (i.e. announcements) - even thought they could not manage implementation on any sort of rapid or effective basis.
hmmm... this gives DT waaaay more credit than I think he deserves. He's not good at focus, strategic planning, nuance so any toughening up, which is good, is coincidental, and likely unintended.
Regarding the opening up of Canada's NW Passage as Climate Change proceeds.
As stated by Frédéric Lasserre, a professor in the geography department at Université Laval .
"........, points out that Arctic sea routes are far from being a "highway" they
have been called for years. He added that, contrary to expectations, climate change is causing the ice to build up in the straits to the west of the Arctic archipelago, making navigation more dangerous. As it disintegrates, the pack ice infiltrates the channels and it reduces how long the
channel is navigable in the summer. "
There is less multi-year ice lower in the Arctic but there is still seasonal ice which impedes navigation. Navigation season is and has been for the 40 plus years I've worked in the Arctic, early to mid July to mid to late October, all depending on ice conditions in a particular year. Of note, even with all the ice breakers Russia has, their Northern Sea Route is only open from July to early November.
Something that really stood out for me during your interview with Dr. Huebert is the ignorance surrounding Canada's military history. From 2001-2014 158 Canadian Military Personnel were killed in Afghanistan while on a "peacemaking" mission.
Simcoe County is home to Canada's largest military training base. A local businessman from the area, with a strong love of country and family, worked with the community to create Operation Hero. A scholarship program for spouses who lost loved ones in that mission.
If we are going to unite this country don't look to a change in government look in the mirror!
Could politics triumph over economics? If Trump can increase steel, aluminum and auto manufacture in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, he could consolidate political support in two of the most populous "swing states" in the former Blue Wall. He can afford to lose the more diffuse support located elsewhere, and today's media eco-system can be trusted to distort the truth.....
It’s not going to happen. The problems with the US steel industry are deeper than mere competition on cost: for decades, they’ve failed to stay technologically competitive or shown any real willingness to change, let alone ability. Every time they’ve been the beneficiaries of protective tariffs, they’ve just said “Thanks!”, jacked up their prices, and pocketed the extra money without changing anything.
The aluminum industry has a different problem: they mainly import bauxite for refining now instead of mining locally, and they don’t have good local power sources to run the energy-intensive refining process. Sure, you could build up the industry with tens of billions in investment and a decade or two of capital effort, but why would you bother to do it in the midwest now?
As for auto manufacturing, that had likewise started to migrate out of Michigan long ago to “right to work” states like Alabama that already vote red. Employment in manufacturing is also in secular decline because of increasing use of automation.
Spot on, the US steel industry has been on a continued downward trend, Trumps tariffs may help a little as the mills they have can go full out...but the mills and aluminum smelters cannot provide the US sufficient supply for there needs and there is no way any company will build new mills or smelters.
If your concerned about enemy submarines in the Arctic archipelago and NW passage the solution is to mine the choke points. Even having the capability is a huge deterent. Finland makes excellent smart mines. They and Denmark have containerized launch systems, suitable for use on a wide range of ships including HDW class. XLUUVs, with a mine laying capability, are in development. If we join the RN project the RCN could have this capability in the near term.
First off. Huge thanks for Dr. Huebert for coming on. I really enjoyed and appreciated his participation. Jen I thought you did a really good job challenging some of the arguments he made as well. Every time my blood pressure would start to rise you seemed to articulated the counterpoint that I was hoping for. A few points I would like to add in.
1. You’re only as good as your last shift. Harkening back to Canada’s WW2 glory is like harkening back to the 80’s Oilers. Canada has mismanaged itself into a multi-decade of darkness. Until it proves itself otherwise, it’s not the same team. History can provide a good template and motivation, but it is not indicative of current ability.
2. None of this current situation should be a surprise. The US has been asking nicely (and we’ve been agreeing!) for a very long time. We’ve known of the issue (Harper had a plan) - but have done nothing. Should the US just keep trying the same tack despite its lack of results?
3. I cringed during the part where Dr. Huebert discussed the US should continue to support us so they could continue to use our bases to defend our sovereignty with American treasure and blood… while we are at the same time (and well put Jen) entirely useless. Ouch.
4. The argument that “we have the ability to do this” (being strengthen our armed forces in short and dramatic order) cannot be used as a supportive argument in rebutting America’s current position to Canada. If our current government’s track record is indicative of anything, it’s rampant and systemic inertia, mismanagement and incompetence. As a rule they are not able to get anything completed or done. Although they did manage to fire, mis-hire or humiliate much of our top military brass over the last 10 years. So I guess there’s that? But truly, talk is cheap and we’re out of people willing to listen. It’s either do it or lose it.
The reason we are "useless" comes down to what Canadians think will keep the country together. That being "bribes of butter" over guns. You have a country held together basically by appeasing the cultural values of one of the most anti-gun cultures on earth (many would argue one of the most feminine as well) so of course the choice is Old Age Security over border security.
Referring to WW2, which ended 80 yrs ago - pushing a century, is nonsensical. If we have to reach that far back (for anything) we’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for plaudits.
Yeah. Yeah. Dr Huebert seems like one more very bright Canadian who just doesn't seem to get it. (Edited for clarity)
Curious which one do you mean ? Chris E. or Dr. Huebert ? As far as I am concerned Chris E. gets is more so than Dr. Huebert.
Thanks for pointing that out-- you're entirely correct -- I was referring to Dr Huebert as the "bright Canadian who doesn't get it". (Edited above for clarity)
Jenn you might want to interview Sam Cooper, author of Wilful Blindness if you think the border drug issue is manufactured by Trump. There is an under reported problem of drugs and money laundering in Canada which preceded the Trump administration. American law enforcement and RCMP are very aware of it. The rest of us should be too.
There is a "core Canada" and there is the periphery. The further from the core the less the Canadian establishment cares about it. The core is the Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto triangle and the heart of the core is the Ottawa Valley. That is the "real Canada."
They might not say it like this, but they show it in actions and in what they care about.
The Russians, Chinese and Americans have figured it out. They think Canada's establishment doesn't care about the Arctic as much as they do, and they are probably right.
Harper cared about the Arctic. If I recall correctly, people mocked him for it.
While Harper was PM, every summer he would go north to visit and view operation Nanook. Yes it was a photo op, but he at least he showed support. Harper proposed the development of Nanisivik on north end of Baffin Island as a RCN forward fueling base. After languishing through most of the Justin era it looks like Nanisivik will finally be operational this coming summer.
Milo, they don't care about the Arctic and the don't care about "outer Canada" i.e. the Prairies, BC, the Atlantic. They give lip service to all of we non-corers but they really don't mean it.
The peacekeeping myth is an odd one. It's completely to feed a positive narrative for Quebec, a culture which is anti-war (and some would dare say "feminine") at the expense of the country as a whole and our image to the rest of the world. That of course feeds into the technocracy can save the world ethic which is core to the Canadian left. (If everyone had a university degree we would achieve world peace)
"Don't worry, sure Canada has a military but they are mostly about participating in UN peacekeeping."
Dr. Huebert has reconfirmed my view that Canada’s anti-Americanism is not helpful, especially from a military perspective. Andrew Coyne also made the point from an economic perspective. It could be argued that the first national project we start, and finish, is the North warning renewal/replacement. Second should be acquiring more F-35’s sooner, and enough to maintain full squadrons, on a rotational basis, at both Iqaluit and Inuvik.
Plus additional Aurora maritime patrol craft to patrol the Arctic all through the July to late October ice free Navigation season. They could be stationed in Iqaluit and/or Inuvik. Logistically it would be difficult to maintain full squadrons in Iqaluit and Inuvik. For now in Inuvik, I believe its 2 CF18's can be forward deployed as is necessary.
Great conversation! Our weaknesses are many. our failed justice system and ineffective laws in addition to our military miscalculation are really starting to show. The time to get serious is yesterday.
https://www.thebureau.news/p/exclusive-how-the-rcmp-cbsa-and-trudeau?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Please Neil!!
Please do not refer to a "justice" system It is a legal system. The legal system is working in PRECISELY the way that it is intended to do, i.e. it follows the laws precisely.
The point is that it is a LEGAL SYSTEM and any relationship to a justice system is purely coincidental.
Yes totally agree comparing Canada's military strength during WWI or WWII irrelevant, as it is for any country that participated in those conflicts. Non of the Allied countries today have a military comparable in numbers to that era, including USA.
But it pains me that apparently many Canadians disregard the CAF contribution to the NATO Stabilization Force from mid 1990's to 2004 where up to 2000 CAF members participated at any one time. And it really pains me that Canadians, including Jen, do not recognize the CAF participation in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2014 where over 40,000 Canadians served, 158 died and to date over 200 returning veterans have committed suicide.
CAF members showed up in Afghanistan in jungle camo; with Leopard tanks that were not suitable for the climate and terrain; vehicles vulnerable to IED's; and RCAF with no heavy lift long haul aircraft and also no troop carrying helicopters. In short order because the political will was there with the Harper government, CAF members received desert camo; Leopard 2 tanks; vehicles more resistant to IED's; CH 147 Chinook helicopters; and as Dr. Huebert stated Canada also bought C17 cargo planes. In the end CAF members were well respected by our allies and proved they were just as capable as any military unit.
As Dr. Huebert stated, Canadians lack of knowledge of our military history is a reflection of our education system.
America is not trying to weaken us. They are trying to toughen us up. And that, like military boot camp, requires tearing down to build back up. It will not be pretty and a lot of people will complain, but they are the weak. Is Canada weak or are we a capable, strong country?
Good comment; your question has an answer.
Canada has with the attacks from both Trudeaus become a weak, doddering hypocrite of a country, committing economic and societal suicide supervised by the Trudeauist "Liberals", NDP eagerly assisting. In the next 4 years Canada will produce a vast amount of strongly worded bafflegab and very little actual action. Substantive action requires lots of sweaty work, and Canada the Kannotkistan don't do "work" no more. Canada is no longer a strong, capable country.
"In the next 4 years Canada will produce a vast amount of strongly worded bafflegab and very little actual action."
For example, just look at the incredible moral outrage right now and all the assertions that all we have to do is to eliminate interprovincial trade barriers, strengthen the military, develop new markets, yada, yada, yada and then compare those assertions to actual concrete plans that have been announced, even if they haven't yet occurred. We can't even get the announcements out - and that was the one strength in the Face Painter's government (i.e. announcements) - even thought they could not manage implementation on any sort of rapid or effective basis.
hmmm... this gives DT waaaay more credit than I think he deserves. He's not good at focus, strategic planning, nuance so any toughening up, which is good, is coincidental, and likely unintended.
Or we don't psycho analyze him and just get on with strengthening the country
It also assumes that when he says he wants to make Canada the 51st state, he in fact wants the opposite.
Geopolitically, what's the diff?
Regarding the opening up of Canada's NW Passage as Climate Change proceeds.
As stated by Frédéric Lasserre, a professor in the geography department at Université Laval .
"........, points out that Arctic sea routes are far from being a "highway" they
have been called for years. He added that, contrary to expectations, climate change is causing the ice to build up in the straits to the west of the Arctic archipelago, making navigation more dangerous. As it disintegrates, the pack ice infiltrates the channels and it reduces how long the
channel is navigable in the summer. "
There is less multi-year ice lower in the Arctic but there is still seasonal ice which impedes navigation. Navigation season is and has been for the 40 plus years I've worked in the Arctic, early to mid July to mid to late October, all depending on ice conditions in a particular year. Of note, even with all the ice breakers Russia has, their Northern Sea Route is only open from July to early November.
Great episode Jen! You seem to be more on the pulse than anyone else that I am listening to.
Rob was probably one of the best profs when I was at the UofC
Something that really stood out for me during your interview with Dr. Huebert is the ignorance surrounding Canada's military history. From 2001-2014 158 Canadian Military Personnel were killed in Afghanistan while on a "peacemaking" mission.
Simcoe County is home to Canada's largest military training base. A local businessman from the area, with a strong love of country and family, worked with the community to create Operation Hero. A scholarship program for spouses who lost loved ones in that mission.
If we are going to unite this country don't look to a change in government look in the mirror!
Could politics triumph over economics? If Trump can increase steel, aluminum and auto manufacture in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, he could consolidate political support in two of the most populous "swing states" in the former Blue Wall. He can afford to lose the more diffuse support located elsewhere, and today's media eco-system can be trusted to distort the truth.....
It’s not going to happen. The problems with the US steel industry are deeper than mere competition on cost: for decades, they’ve failed to stay technologically competitive or shown any real willingness to change, let alone ability. Every time they’ve been the beneficiaries of protective tariffs, they’ve just said “Thanks!”, jacked up their prices, and pocketed the extra money without changing anything.
The aluminum industry has a different problem: they mainly import bauxite for refining now instead of mining locally, and they don’t have good local power sources to run the energy-intensive refining process. Sure, you could build up the industry with tens of billions in investment and a decade or two of capital effort, but why would you bother to do it in the midwest now?
As for auto manufacturing, that had likewise started to migrate out of Michigan long ago to “right to work” states like Alabama that already vote red. Employment in manufacturing is also in secular decline because of increasing use of automation.
Spot on, the US steel industry has been on a continued downward trend, Trumps tariffs may help a little as the mills they have can go full out...but the mills and aluminum smelters cannot provide the US sufficient supply for there needs and there is no way any company will build new mills or smelters.
Reshoring manufacturing will push up prices for consumer goods. Nothing promotes backlash more so that impairing Americans' ability to consume
Interesting interview. But, dude, the word nuclear is pronounced NEW CLEE ERR, not NEW CUE LER.
Based on 39 years of experience in the RCN, including time in subs, we don't need Nuclear subs. Long range Conventional subs with AIP we do the Sub.
If your concerned about enemy submarines in the Arctic archipelago and NW passage the solution is to mine the choke points. Even having the capability is a huge deterent. Finland makes excellent smart mines. They and Denmark have containerized launch systems, suitable for use on a wide range of ships including HDW class. XLUUVs, with a mine laying capability, are in development. If we join the RN project the RCN could have this capability in the near term.
Thank you Jen, that was fucking brilliant. MORE PLEASE