It boggles my mind that neither the provincial Liberals nor NDP can get it together. Dougie has blown well past ex-PM Chrétien in the crony-corruption department. In the ordinary course of events, this would be enough to have gotten his party pushed out of office by now, and this would be a good thing for public accountability, and for democracy more broadly. And, er, probably for C/conservativism too.
ericanadian may be right in suggesting the federal Liberal Party has siphoned the best from the provincial Liberals. I'd add that the NDP appears to remain locked in a death spiral in which traditional NDPers and ultra-left ideologues choke one another to death.
But it's not so different in the provincial Conservative party, either. Party insiders might be content to keep winning elections, but Dougie's been alienating fiscal conservatives for a while, and eventually one of the other parties is going to get its act together. Then who will be clinging to official party status? It could well be the Conservatives.
I suspect the Liberal machine that kept the OLP afloat got siphoned off by the Federal Liberals and they’re left with the B team. I don’t think its coincidence that things started to collapse for the Ontario Liberals not long after the Federal Liberals took power. The Ontario Liberals last run started right about when things started to collapse for the Feds in the transition from Chretien to Martin.
I was President of the UWindsor during the Dalton years and campaigned in Essex for the late (and great) Bruce Crozier. I recall people at the doors hated Dalton. We’d knock and say we were with the Liberals, the person would say, “I’m not voting Liberal I don’t like Dalton, my vote is staying with Bruce.” So we got instructions to play down the Liberal, even took down any posters or images of Dalton in the office.
Commiserating post election with peers, I learned this was a common theme in many ridings during that election. In hindsight now I see that the OLP had a great many candidates and incumbents who were entrenched in their communities as leaders and champions. They’re link went beyond having a community base made up of a certain sought after demographic from the central campaign, they were former mayors (as in the case of Bruce) or aldermen or business leaders known for their charity within the public. And I really think that’s what’s missing in politics and especially in the Liberal party who have become drunk on identity politics. To the point they run their entire campaign, even how candidates are selected, by these narrow metrics that have been distilled by some formula into victory. It’s means that an individual candidate may have a very strong base from their own ethnic community, but broadly in the riding they are a nobody. It’s means that connection beyond the short here and now partisan spin is lost and voters respond in kind.
The quality of candidates is not a pivotal factor in the OLP's decline. A small minority of voters make their choices on the basis of the quality of local candidates, but the vast majority of voters make their decisions on the basis of Leader or central party messaging.
The OLP has become out of touch with the electorate because it has its head in the sand on what its own members think on public policy. The OLP has become a highly undemocratic political party, being one of the few major political parties to never empower its members or delegates to vote on policies.
The Progressive Conservatives, the ONDP, and the Ontario Greens all have policy plenaries at their respective conventions, despite their varying degrees of accessibility (though I cannot speak for Ontario's fringe other parties). Almost every major federal political party has policy plenaries, including the federal Liberals (even if they debate only about 20 policies every couple of years and the passed policies are easily ignored by the Prime Minister). To find any political party that is remotely mainstream and which never has policy votes amongst its members, you would find the OLP to only be in the same company as Maxime Bernier's People's Party!
That party has suffered institutional decline in the past decade and the instincts by some within the party have been to throw the Leaders under the bus for failing to overcome that - even as the rest of the OLP establishment remains virtually unchanged...
Yep people seem to have long memories in Ontario. Must be its Irish heritage. But I got a chuckle watching Doug Fraud trying to pour out a bottle of Crown Royal without removing the flow restrictor from the neck. Of course nobody in his undoubtedly million dollar team of advisers and event planners thought of it.
They're used to the good stuff, which typically only comes in 700-750ml bottles.
Rob, however, would have known that you can usually pull out the plastic pourer with your teeth. I doubt he could bring himself to waste that much booze though.
It boggles my mind that neither the provincial Liberals nor NDP can get it together. Dougie has blown well past ex-PM Chrétien in the crony-corruption department. In the ordinary course of events, this would be enough to have gotten his party pushed out of office by now, and this would be a good thing for public accountability, and for democracy more broadly. And, er, probably for C/conservativism too.
ericanadian may be right in suggesting the federal Liberal Party has siphoned the best from the provincial Liberals. I'd add that the NDP appears to remain locked in a death spiral in which traditional NDPers and ultra-left ideologues choke one another to death.
But it's not so different in the provincial Conservative party, either. Party insiders might be content to keep winning elections, but Dougie's been alienating fiscal conservatives for a while, and eventually one of the other parties is going to get its act together. Then who will be clinging to official party status? It could well be the Conservatives.
I suspect the Liberal machine that kept the OLP afloat got siphoned off by the Federal Liberals and they’re left with the B team. I don’t think its coincidence that things started to collapse for the Ontario Liberals not long after the Federal Liberals took power. The Ontario Liberals last run started right about when things started to collapse for the Feds in the transition from Chretien to Martin.
Half the people voted for Ford because they thought he was Bill Davis. The other half thought he was Donald Trump.
Only half kidding ...
I was President of the UWindsor during the Dalton years and campaigned in Essex for the late (and great) Bruce Crozier. I recall people at the doors hated Dalton. We’d knock and say we were with the Liberals, the person would say, “I’m not voting Liberal I don’t like Dalton, my vote is staying with Bruce.” So we got instructions to play down the Liberal, even took down any posters or images of Dalton in the office.
Commiserating post election with peers, I learned this was a common theme in many ridings during that election. In hindsight now I see that the OLP had a great many candidates and incumbents who were entrenched in their communities as leaders and champions. They’re link went beyond having a community base made up of a certain sought after demographic from the central campaign, they were former mayors (as in the case of Bruce) or aldermen or business leaders known for their charity within the public. And I really think that’s what’s missing in politics and especially in the Liberal party who have become drunk on identity politics. To the point they run their entire campaign, even how candidates are selected, by these narrow metrics that have been distilled by some formula into victory. It’s means that an individual candidate may have a very strong base from their own ethnic community, but broadly in the riding they are a nobody. It’s means that connection beyond the short here and now partisan spin is lost and voters respond in kind.
The quality of candidates is not a pivotal factor in the OLP's decline. A small minority of voters make their choices on the basis of the quality of local candidates, but the vast majority of voters make their decisions on the basis of Leader or central party messaging.
The OLP has become out of touch with the electorate because it has its head in the sand on what its own members think on public policy. The OLP has become a highly undemocratic political party, being one of the few major political parties to never empower its members or delegates to vote on policies.
How do you think it compares in that regard to the other Ontario and all Federal parties?
The Progressive Conservatives, the ONDP, and the Ontario Greens all have policy plenaries at their respective conventions, despite their varying degrees of accessibility (though I cannot speak for Ontario's fringe other parties). Almost every major federal political party has policy plenaries, including the federal Liberals (even if they debate only about 20 policies every couple of years and the passed policies are easily ignored by the Prime Minister). To find any political party that is remotely mainstream and which never has policy votes amongst its members, you would find the OLP to only be in the same company as Maxime Bernier's People's Party!
*UWindsor Young Liberals
At the Ontario Liberals' General Meeting I ran for the party Presidency and lost by 776 voters versus 148 votes. I wrote a reflection about the experience here: https://stefanklietsch.substack.com/p/reflections-from-the-losing-presidential
That party has suffered institutional decline in the past decade and the instincts by some within the party have been to throw the Leaders under the bus for failing to overcome that - even as the rest of the OLP establishment remains virtually unchanged...
So long as people remember and revile McGuinty and Wynne the OLP will continue in pergatory.
Hell, Ontario still hasn't forgiven the NDP and they were voted out 30 years ago.
Accurate.
Yep people seem to have long memories in Ontario. Must be its Irish heritage. But I got a chuckle watching Doug Fraud trying to pour out a bottle of Crown Royal without removing the flow restrictor from the neck. Of course nobody in his undoubtedly million dollar team of advisers and event planners thought of it.
It was a clumsy moment, in slow motion even.
They're used to the good stuff, which typically only comes in 700-750ml bottles.
Rob, however, would have known that you can usually pull out the plastic pourer with your teeth. I doubt he could bring himself to waste that much booze though.