We need to recall that responsibility for the suffering of the people of Gaza lies with Hamas. Wars are horrific and ugly. That's why it's a crime to start them. This war was not of Israel's choosing. Hamas forced it on them. For Israel, the choice is destroy Hamas or allow Hamas to rebuild and repeat its atrocities. Clearly, Israel's only moral choice is to defeat Hamas.
Sure. But the point surely isn't to bomb away an idea, but to make Hamas incapable of carrying out another major attack like Oct 7. Simply put: to make it possible for Israelis to sleep at night and make it so that residents near Gaza don't have to put up with missile showers for another 16 years.
Will that actually happen? Wouldn't it be great if that were true? I don't think you can bomb your way to peace with a terrorist organisation. You have to solve it across that table. The US tried the same thing with their creation; ISIS. No, it's not as strong as it used to be, but it still randomly terrorises people. There's an awful lot of kids in Gaza who have seen things no one should ever see. How hard will they be to recruit in 10 years? I don't believe there will be peace for Israel until Israel decides to be part of a meaningful peace solution. The Palestinians must do the same. Then, there will be sleep.
I don't think anyone, anywhere is talking about Israel solving things across the table with Hamas. With Hamas it's a case of Hamas wants to kill us; we don't want to be killed; and neither side is willing to compromise.
As for the Palestinian Authority, they have no motivation to make peace. The little legitimacy the PA has rests on its opposition to Israel. The PA simply wants quiet (more or less), not peace, as does the current Israeli government. For the time being, I think that's the best we can reasonably wish for.
Longer term, nothing Israel does or doesn't do is going to convince the Palestinians to accept Israel's legitimacy, and until the Palestinians decide to do that, peace will remain an illusion, regardless of who the Israelis elect.
I certainly agree that the longer term peace prospects are bleak though, as tends to happen in the aftermath of numerous abhorrent war crimes. That said, I don't think it's fair to place the burden on the Palestinians, as regardless of support or rejection of Hamas, civilian casualties on this scale is an atrocity, regardless of thought-terminating "welp that's war for yuh" cliches.
Gavin, I think you misread. My phrase: "as does the current Israeli government" refers to a desire for quiet. Israel's current govt has no ambition to get a peace deal with the Palestinians.
As for war crimes and atrocities, obviously you must be referring to Hamas.
Cool propaganda, can we also get an interview with a Palestinian who's lost family members? Shouldn't be too hard to find but I don't think you'll get a free trip out of it.
Iris is the vehicle of her own and of her friend’s demise. Even after the murder, torture and kidnapping, she still clings to her peace st all costs Progressive ideals. If I was in her shoes, my fury would know no bounds and there is only one direction that it would/should be pointed. My sympathy for her and assuming the same politics of her friends, is at zero.
We need to recall that responsibility for the suffering of the people of Gaza lies with Hamas. Wars are horrific and ugly. That's why it's a crime to start them. This war was not of Israel's choosing. Hamas forced it on them. For Israel, the choice is destroy Hamas or allow Hamas to rebuild and repeat its atrocities. Clearly, Israel's only moral choice is to defeat Hamas.
In principal, I agree. But you can't bomb away an idea. You can only push it underground for a while.
Sure. But the point surely isn't to bomb away an idea, but to make Hamas incapable of carrying out another major attack like Oct 7. Simply put: to make it possible for Israelis to sleep at night and make it so that residents near Gaza don't have to put up with missile showers for another 16 years.
Will that actually happen? Wouldn't it be great if that were true? I don't think you can bomb your way to peace with a terrorist organisation. You have to solve it across that table. The US tried the same thing with their creation; ISIS. No, it's not as strong as it used to be, but it still randomly terrorises people. There's an awful lot of kids in Gaza who have seen things no one should ever see. How hard will they be to recruit in 10 years? I don't believe there will be peace for Israel until Israel decides to be part of a meaningful peace solution. The Palestinians must do the same. Then, there will be sleep.
I don't think anyone, anywhere is talking about Israel solving things across the table with Hamas. With Hamas it's a case of Hamas wants to kill us; we don't want to be killed; and neither side is willing to compromise.
As for the Palestinian Authority, they have no motivation to make peace. The little legitimacy the PA has rests on its opposition to Israel. The PA simply wants quiet (more or less), not peace, as does the current Israeli government. For the time being, I think that's the best we can reasonably wish for.
Longer term, nothing Israel does or doesn't do is going to convince the Palestinians to accept Israel's legitimacy, and until the Palestinians decide to do that, peace will remain an illusion, regardless of who the Israelis elect.
I respect the civil engagement, but I think it's a misstatement to assert that Israel's current government wants peace, per Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-agrees-reopen-gaza-crossing-humanitarian-aid-white-house-says-2024-05-06/#:~:text=%22Netanyahu%20and%20the%20war%20cabinet,to%20evacuate%20parts%20of%20Rafah
I certainly agree that the longer term peace prospects are bleak though, as tends to happen in the aftermath of numerous abhorrent war crimes. That said, I don't think it's fair to place the burden on the Palestinians, as regardless of support or rejection of Hamas, civilian casualties on this scale is an atrocity, regardless of thought-terminating "welp that's war for yuh" cliches.
Gavin, I think you misread. My phrase: "as does the current Israeli government" refers to a desire for quiet. Israel's current govt has no ambition to get a peace deal with the Palestinians.
As for war crimes and atrocities, obviously you must be referring to Hamas.
All of us living in a secure, peaceful, nation need to be reminded on a regular basis, of the atrocity that took place in Israel On October 7.
lol, Al Jazeera.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel
Imagine that, the side that builds bomb shelters for its civilians has lower civilian casualties than the side using its civilians as human shields.
Is this what the “hamas fangirls” of our universities are advocating for? Seems so.
Heartbreaking story. I hope and pray for the release of the hostages. I can't imagine what their friends and family are going through.
"Though Iris had always advocated for peace with the Palestinians, her faith in this possibility was badly shaken." I had always advocated for peace too, until I saw this video this morning.... brought to me by the New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/opinion/gaza-hospital-collapse.html?campaign_id=39&emc=edit_ty_20240521&instance_id=124009&nl=opinion-today®i_id=70228563&segment_id=167317&te=1&user_id=986d1419e5788cbd4c82d45efabc9a1a
Now do Germany and Japan in 1945 - I wonder what their hospitals looked like at the time.
Exactly.
Cool propaganda, can we also get an interview with a Palestinian who's lost family members? Shouldn't be too hard to find but I don't think you'll get a free trip out of it.
Iris is the vehicle of her own and of her friend’s demise. Even after the murder, torture and kidnapping, she still clings to her peace st all costs Progressive ideals. If I was in her shoes, my fury would know no bounds and there is only one direction that it would/should be pointed. My sympathy for her and assuming the same politics of her friends, is at zero.