Just thought I would share with you the comments I added to this when sharing it on Facebook.
There is more poignancy to some of what is written here than maybe even Mr. Potter knows.
If the world gets images of "19th-century aristocrats in wigs and hose, demanding satisfaction and challenging one another to a meeting over some best-forgotten offence," when they think of "honour" - then they never really understood honour at all. That wasn't genuine honour.
There is an honour based in an aversion to shame - that's the kind of honour that result in Western duels and Asian seppuku (the feudal Japanese practice of self-disembowelment). Then there is the sense of honour that has reference to character. This is a higher sense of the word. It is this honour that values principles, not reputation, ethics, not appearances. It is this honour that might walk away from some fights (because the fight itself degrades the fighter) or in toward others (because the principles at stake demand personal sacrifice).
For all and whatever faults the Ukraine has experienced and exhibited over the years (and I understand there are serious criticisms of the ways they and their leaders have been) it is this latter kind of honour that they appear to be exhibiting now. The honour that is not, I think, about what Potter describes as "the very old 19th-century idea of nationalism," per se. Nationalism is there, but it is not about the nation, so much as its people; and it seems not so much about "the people" as about their freedom (that's a principle by the way), their humanity (another principle), and their dignity (yet another principle). And, in the end, it is also about their homes, and their families, and the rights of them and their society to safety and self-determination, which are about as honourable a set of purposes as a bunch of fighters can have.
Whether Zelensky was a good president or leader before this war happened or not, deciding to stay and face the risks of the fight because his life is not his own, as president of the country, is also about as honourable a thing as any leader can do. Most of us will never have to make that kind of decision. God help us that we never do.
Wow. Thank you for this. The courage of a nation fighting for its right to exist takes my breath away. If only the West could find such courage and leadership
I think it's just a question of how much earth is scorched before he's removed. Being a billionaire with your own private army makes that just a little more challenging sadly.
I would argue the reason most people vote for who they do is because they don't go deep enough into the most important decisions of their lives. Thanks to the internet including YouTube, Substack, etc. people (like me) can find a wealth of information and new ideas including opposing views, that we didn't know was out there before (or more easily available including libraries). I find most people don't want to explore issues more than superficially, and they hold this view.
I rather doubt that honour has been thought about very much by most as one can see by the responses above. Using a thoughtful essay about the subject for political drive-bys really is sad.
As well as the leaders being embarrassed, I think a good many of us feel embarrassed that we've not joined the fight. I know I feel like a voyeur watching the absolute horror on TV but just sitting on the sideline as if it's a sports event. We're being cast as cowards! Surely the time is well nigh that we should be screwing up our collective courage and saying damn the consequences ...
Andrew, I agree with your assessment of our leaders, here in Canada and the West in general. It truly makes one feel ashamed to witness the horrors Ukraine is enduring, essentially on our behalf, while we sit on the sidelines.
And yet… what more can we do? Do we truly believe that Putin will bring out the nukes if we enforce a no-fly zone? If so, do we have the right to take that risk? Most mornings when I read about the latest atrocities I wonder if maybe we should step up. But I honestly don’t know.
But anyway, if we’re talking about honour, perhaps I have more faith in us supposedly effete Canadians than many in this forum. I believe that if we were faced with a truly existential crisis we would draw upon reserves of courage and resolve that we don’t know we have. Fortunately we haven’t been tested – yet.
And BTW, it’s a shame to see how quickly some of the threads in this forum degenerate into name-calling. One of the things that attracted me to The Line was the respectful tone of debate. That’s a rare commodity these days, and I hope it continues here.
Neilster. I agree with much of what you say. But I disagree with your feeling we Canadians haven't been tested yet. For reasons I can't explain about myself as it comes from within, I'm taking Putin's invasion of Ukraine very personally (and I have Russian heritage!) Ukraine is a western independent country that has a forward/modern view of itself and has been working towards less corruption and more open democracy. By attacking Ukraine, Putin has declared war on not just Ukraine, but also on the rest of the west regardless of physical location. We are being tested. I agree that how we can do more is a difficult one. I lean towards taking a chance if we moved western military ships to the North Pacific, Baltic and Mediterrean we would be giving Putin a stronger message.
A sharp and excellent critique of people in Canada and other countries who had apparently decided that fighting (and sacrificing) for our freedoms and rights was passé.
I think your criticism of Mr Trudeau was entirely fair... nonetheless, his failure is our failure. We live in a democratic state where the people get to choose who it is they support. The fact that the opposition parties have failed (miserably) to propose credible leaders in response to the Liberal Party's embrace of Mr Trudeau speaks volumes about how lost they--and we--are.
My complaint WRT to the Prime Minister is this: On foreign policy, he has demonstrated a tendency to reactive policy and a desire to seek after the "big hit" in the short term.
Where is the evidence that this Prime Minister has sought to develop a long-term strategy that is not the product of trade and investment lobbyists or technocrats who tell us that we must do X or Y in order to ensure the continued viability of our strategic partnerships?
What has the Prime Minister and his government done to address the serious problems of recruitment and retention in the armed forces?
Has this Prime Minister done more to address the serious intelligence collection issues that plague CSIS in particular?
No. What we see from him on the foreign policy front is the reflex of the reactive.
We are a convening country. What that means is that we are weak, unable to contribute or believe in anything of value but we can talk you to death. God forbid we hurt anyones feelings or have conflict over something as silly as freedom when we can all have safety. After all, are we are the first Post National state in a new transnational world. Borders are to keep people in, and any sign of pride in a once brave country has been diminished purposefully to destroy any thought of nationhood. There shall be no flag waving allowed in Ottawa as Canada , as a country, no longer exists. There is nothing to fight for, nor reason to take up arms. Only countries with an identity, pride, and who believe in freedom, ever need to fight a war. Sending Ukraine strength, honour (we no longer have need for any) and praying for a victory in your quest for sovereignty.
In your opinion. I would suggest that you have completely forgotten the accomplishments of this country on the battlefield throughout time....all the way up to Afghanistan. I think your blind hatred for the PM mixed with your bizarre concept of freedom...to be ignorant, may have affected your pride in country, but it sure as hell hasn't impacted mine.
Those words I wrote came straight out of your hero Justin Trudeau’s mouth in a speech to NYC graduates Sir! That shows you just how little attention you actually pay , or could it be the Trudeau national media does not report to Canadians on anything that the ideologue spews that reveal his true plans for his new world order. Your the person that has been blinded and misinformed as you obviously have no idea what he does and says as your too busy worshipping him. As for Afghanistan and treatment of our soldiers and veterans by Justin Trudeau, well sir, he spoke out loud in town hall saying they were asking for more than he could give! They were asking for too much! He said this after he gave ten million to Khadr for murdering an American soldier and blinded another while he, a so called Canadian, was over making bombs to kill our allies in Afghanistan. The same Justin Trudeau that did a big fat zero when Biden withdrew American Troops from Afghanistan to aid The interpreters that worked with our armed forces. For months before the withdrawal by Biden, Canadian veterans were begging Trudeau to do something to save the interpreters to which he did zip, diddly and squat.
You are not a proud Canadian, I heard you speak the same hateful language daily against those that stood for freedom and Canada and who united Canadians. Your hero Trudeau, and his media, continually denigrated and divided Canadians . He chose to divide us, just as you did, instead of standing for what is true and right. Your too busy worrying about yourself and your safety, to ever come to the call of war. You won’t even leave your home because of a virus, let alone to defend your Post National State that you aided in creating with Trudeau. Your blinded by your devotion to a false idol and you have no right to judge any other Canadian for being true to their country, it’s Constitution and our Charter of rights. Canada is a genocidal nation in his eyes and it must be replaced by his ideal Post National State. You better understand what you are standing for sir because if your a Trudeau puppet you can not be a proud Canadian. It no longer exists in his eyes. Our Canada was a sovereign nation, it is that no longer sir!
Marylou, I understand your frustration. However re Khadr I seem to be one of the few Canadians who concluded he was a young victim of his very misguided family. During the past 45 years of my life has been deeply involved in the Middle East. I've walked through lots of figurative mud, frustration, tears, yet happiness in this part of the world. Since being released and receiving money from our federal government, Khadr has lived a very quiet and respectful life and is committed to helping others. I think you have more homework to do on this subject.
My understanding on Khadr was that the government's own lawyers concluded that his rights had been violated, and it was better to settle than go to court where the award would likely be much higher. He was a kid fighting a war in a warzone; a child soldier. What do soldiers do?
Funny those lawyers never said that to Harper. Soldiers from Canada do not kill their allies. He was a soldier from where he used to be from. That’s where he should have been returned to, not Canada.
I have heard others explain it in a similar way. I am not a fan of his parents and family who headed there for the specific reason to kill. When they were injured they flew back to Canada for healthcare and then returned to fight again. Whether his father was responsible for his actions is debatable. What you mean to say had he been 20 and was with his father, it would have been different due to his age. I believe he had more than just his father there and all were taught the same skills. What you need to do is explain that to the man’s family that he killed and the other that he blinded. He should have to at least provide restitution and aid to them for his crime. He should have to face them and allow them the right to condemn his deed. I am sorry but I can not, nor will I ever condone any one who takes the like of another purposely especially when you are killing the allies of the country you immigrated to. They should never have been allowed back into Canada. Many who aided our soldiers were left behind by the government of Canada, regardless of the pleas of our soldiers. It should be them that take the place of those that killed our allies. It should be them that are given refuge. Not him.
Marylou, given Omar Khadr isn’t the main topic of the article, and my response is long, I don’t plan to talk about it further. Plus I don’t want to piss off other readers or The Line’s fabulously generous creators.
Like you, I don’t like how the naturalized Cdn Khadr parents (now dead Egyptian father, Palestinian mother) took advantage of our social assistance & health care pgms. esp. given the max. most Cdns are allowed is 1 yr of LIMITED med coverage outside of Ontario, after which coverage is canceled. The parents and oldest sister’s values are non-standard to say the least, but Cdn law has protected them from prosecution and forfeiting their Cdn citizenship.
The Khadr’s had 7 children, most, including Omar were born in Canada, which made Omar a Cdn citizen, not an immigrant. The history of the family moving between multiple countries (Canada, Pakistan, Afghanistan) is dizzying. His father eventually sent Omar (who wanted to get away from his mother) & a couple of brothers to Afghanistan. Six mths after arriving there, Omar was involved in the deadly skirmish with American soldiers. The exact details are said to be blurry. One American officer there said Sgt. Speer was wearing Afghan garb and was helmetless, so I ask how would Omar know he was ‘purposely’ shooting at an American soldier? He was also alone without family and did not speak Afghan Pashtu or Dari. This was a foreign country to him.
Omar was 15 when this happened. He was the 1st person since WW II to be prosecuted for a war crime. I don’t hear any talk from Cdns re their anger over African child soldiers. Omar has also apologized to Sgt. Speers wife. Also, note that Khadr was severely wounded and blinded in one eye during the skirmish.
Omar had the extreme good luck of having a team of Cdn lawyers take up his case and one of his American military lawyers recognized the unfair treatment he experienced. He was also evaluated as having severe PTSD and being terribly abused at Guantanamo, yet was luckily identified as ‘redeemable’ given his young age and intelligence.
If people are angry re the legal and financial outcome, I don’t know why they don’t point their anger at a) his parents b) the Cdn and American legal systems, including the very bizarre existence of Guantanamo (which still has a few prisoners languishing there for over 20 years.) c) why the hell did NATO go into Afghanistan given no Afghani was involved in 911?
So far, Canada has not responded to the 2014 civil suit initiated by Speer’s wife. (Note the USA does not allow civil lawsuits against “acts of war”, so their lawsuit charges had to be changed.) Since then, we’ve heard nothing the lawsuit or about Omar & two other brothers who live quiet lives in Canada.
Some Cdns don’t consider Omar at age 15 to have been a child, plus THEIR child would NEVER do something like this. The minimum age (requiring parental consent) to join our military is 17. I’ve asked myself, well at what age should Cdns feel a person under age 17 still be considered a child? Is it 1 day after turning say 10? Or one day before? Do we want to be like Iran, where a female is considered an adult at age 9, but for a boy it’s 15? The reason for Iran’s logic is that boys take longer to mature. How convenient for the boys.
Some readers may say I defend Omar because of how ‘weird/nonstandard’ my own life has been. I’ve traveled to 30 countries starting at a young age. E.g. the former USSR (inc. the Caucasus and some ‘stan’ countries) (I’m half Russian), Afghanistan during the unexpected internal coup a year before Russia invaded, other Middle Eastern countries, and I later married an Egyptian and was living in Egypt during the Arab Spring. I can be as negative as anyone about these countries, but one thing it’s done is open my eyes and mind to seeing another POV. (I’m still working on this). I think Omar Khadr has more than paid his dues and he was worth saving.
A) Four other Middle Eastern Cdn adult men (Arar, Almalki, El Maati and Nureddin) received a total of $40 million from our government for not handling their torture/imprisonment in other countries appropriately. Yet there wasn’t nearly the amount of negative public outcry about them.
B) Aside from Canada, the other countries with links to the Khadr’s were Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan and the USA. Virtually no one in the first three countries would have known or cared about it, and like many things related to Canada, it wasn’t major news in the USA. For reasons I don't understand, it sadly continues to eat away at a small % of Cdns.
Don't you dare tell me what I am from your whining soapbox of ignorance and hate. You know nothing. Zero. Nadda. You're understanding of Canadian history, and what has transpired in the last 10 years and why is so stunningly absent that it would be shocking...if it wasn't so consistent.
I really can't be bothered with this any longer, as there is no way to respond in a polite manner. You are everything that is wrong with this country. Ignorant, and proud of it.
Ohhh Tough words for a Trudeau troll. Maybe you will get a bonus. I watch what you say and you pounce on anyone speaking Ill of your boss , if your not a Trudeau troll, I apologize but I do t think I am wrong sir. Keep smiling Trudeau loves you.❤️
That is really rich coming from the two Trudeau paid trolls. No one may speak badly of their boss or take downs must happen. You two make it a team sport. If you can’t answer to the truth you must assure others the one saying them crazy. Priceless. I see why you respond so quickly to anyone on here who dare spurn your boss. Your a little too transparent. The saying you may fool some of the people some of the time but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Same goes for Trudeau.
That you think I'm a Trudeau supporter defies comprehension...or explains your complete lack of it.
It must be a special world for you...knowing nothing about everything, while professing blind ignorance of reality from your keyboard on a regular basis. That you again refer to us as trolls because we don't agree with you shows a level of maturity that should have been solved by about Grade 6.
I'll answer to the truth should you ever provide it, but I'm not optimistic. Spin and rubbish....right in your wheelhouse. Now go elect Pierre, and lose another election. If you're an example of the wisdom level of the party, I doubt you'll ever figure it out. Have a nice life.
Well, considering one of The Line editors resides in Ontario, and that the author of this column resides in Montreal, it’s blatantly obvious that many who live in all parts of the country share the opinion that Turdeau and his band of feckless eejits have only themselves to blame for the abysmal leadership of this country. Go outside Canada and you will find an even worse opinion of him, if that’s even possible. Worst PM ever.
Hah! My experience has been exactly the opposite when travelling outside of Canada, guess it depends where you go and who you talk to. MAGA hats anyone?
BTW, I am well aware of who Matt Gurney and Andrew Potter are and where they live.
Sorry...what "facts"? You have an opinion based on your experience. that hardly makes it factual. Trudeau is useless. he has been since SNC, but the only reason that Scheer lost was Scheer's performance. That election was served to him on a platter and he still found a way to lose it. Erin had a bigger challenge because Trudeau was actually pretty good on COVID...lousy on everything else around it. Like it or not, the Conservatives have lost far more than Trudeau has won.....and that doesn't appear likely to change anytime soon.
Oh Terry, this lapdog persona you perform for the Libs is downright embarrassing; you’re making their sad scenario even worse; just stop. Perhaps go back and check the facts about who wrote this column…not wrong. Potter lives in Montreal.
What I was thinking is expediting the arrival of refugees in Canada. I know most people want to stay in their own country or near it but it seems there are still a number that want to come here. I don't know why (and in all fairness there may be a good reason) it takes so very long to process refugees.
I quite agree with your comment. It twists the piece from a focus on a hero to his country and an exemplar to the world to throwing a dart at Canada and Trudeau. In doing so, he decided to turn something which could have been positive into something negative – although Canada bashing seems to be quite a popular sport with both contributors and those who comment here.
Thx, I surely don’t agree with him on everything but I am so tired of western politicians (I’m a Saskie) who get elected & run on screeching at Trudeau. We have an effective premier & this is about all he does for policy & yet he’s popular.
I remember reading that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Robert Kennedy told his brother, the President: "Canada will give all aid short of help." I've never been able to find a source for that quote & so I have no idea whether it's true or not (and if not, it should be). If it is true, than it shows that nothing much has changed in the last 60 years or so either regarding our foreign policy or how it is genuinely viewed by decision-makers away from the cameras and microphones.
The other thought is that it wasn't too long ago when President Zelensky was not regarded very seriously either inside or outside his country. Indeed, many of the charges flung at Trudeau bear some resemblance to those flung at Zelensky. I'd like to think that if Canada was ever faced with an existential threat that our leadership (from any party on any level) would step up in similar fashion. Sometimes circumstances shape true leadership that was previously well-hidden but, hopefully, Canadians never have to find out because while I'd like to believe such a call would be answered with courage, I rather think it won't be...
Ukraine only became an independent country 30 years ago. This isn't a lot of time for it to reduce the worst aspects of Soviet rule that it inherited (e.g. corruption) and turn it into a 1st world standard of living. Most citizens in every country are impatient with whoever is in power. They expect fast improvements. I think it's terrible how the west still describes Zelensky as just an actor/comedian. My God, the man was educated in Russian, Ukrainian and English, trained as a lawyer and comes from a religious minority (Jewish). Now that's impressive for a person who is only 44 year old person. IMO Canada needs a few Zelenskys.
Churchill was also widely regarded as a 'has-been' politician in the years before WW2. Lincoln is another great leader who, even after being elected, got very little respect in the first months of his Presidency. And I agree, COVID certainly produced no political heroes but I did say, "I'd like to believe" so I'd classify it less as optimism and more as wishful thinking!😉
When the day finally comes that I give up on The Line, it will be because of Marylou Speelman's unacceptable comments. Her outrageous nonstop hatred makes me sick to my stomach.
Great article. But I must quibble with sweeping statement like "the West doesn't know what to do..." Perhaps *some* parts of the West don't. But I hypothesize it is not alien to people who are "back row" - to use the lingo of Chris Arnade. For those not familiar with Arnade (who also has his own substack), back row people are those who value family, faith and place. In contrast, front row people value education, credentials and consumerism.
Just thought I would share with you the comments I added to this when sharing it on Facebook.
There is more poignancy to some of what is written here than maybe even Mr. Potter knows.
If the world gets images of "19th-century aristocrats in wigs and hose, demanding satisfaction and challenging one another to a meeting over some best-forgotten offence," when they think of "honour" - then they never really understood honour at all. That wasn't genuine honour.
There is an honour based in an aversion to shame - that's the kind of honour that result in Western duels and Asian seppuku (the feudal Japanese practice of self-disembowelment). Then there is the sense of honour that has reference to character. This is a higher sense of the word. It is this honour that values principles, not reputation, ethics, not appearances. It is this honour that might walk away from some fights (because the fight itself degrades the fighter) or in toward others (because the principles at stake demand personal sacrifice).
For all and whatever faults the Ukraine has experienced and exhibited over the years (and I understand there are serious criticisms of the ways they and their leaders have been) it is this latter kind of honour that they appear to be exhibiting now. The honour that is not, I think, about what Potter describes as "the very old 19th-century idea of nationalism," per se. Nationalism is there, but it is not about the nation, so much as its people; and it seems not so much about "the people" as about their freedom (that's a principle by the way), their humanity (another principle), and their dignity (yet another principle). And, in the end, it is also about their homes, and their families, and the rights of them and their society to safety and self-determination, which are about as honourable a set of purposes as a bunch of fighters can have.
Whether Zelensky was a good president or leader before this war happened or not, deciding to stay and face the risks of the fight because his life is not his own, as president of the country, is also about as honourable a thing as any leader can do. Most of us will never have to make that kind of decision. God help us that we never do.
Thank you for that excellent mini-essay on honour. I especially appreciate your insistence that honour is based on principle.
Wow. Thank you for this. The courage of a nation fighting for its right to exist takes my breath away. If only the West could find such courage and leadership
The North American vacuum of leadership at all levels is astounding.
and Terry they are fighting for Freedom. lower case liberalism not Liberal Party of Canada
I think it's just a question of how much earth is scorched before he's removed. Being a billionaire with your own private army makes that just a little more challenging sadly.
His own private army seems somewhat lacking.
His regular army certainly has failed. Unfortunately, the one protecting him still seems to be working.
Thanks for all the comments everyone. I really appreciate the discussion here. Happy Easter to all of you. Glory to Ukraine.
Such a shame our PM has so little of that quality, if at all. Well, most of our politicians, to be honest.
I agree. We talk a good game, but that's about it.
Precisely. As much use as tits on a bull.
Justin Trudeau - All mouth, no trousers.
But fine, fine socks!
Obviously we differ on thoughts of honour too, Terry.
I would argue the reason most people vote for who they do is because they don't go deep enough into the most important decisions of their lives. Thanks to the internet including YouTube, Substack, etc. people (like me) can find a wealth of information and new ideas including opposing views, that we didn't know was out there before (or more easily available including libraries). I find most people don't want to explore issues more than superficially, and they hold this view.
I rather doubt that honour has been thought about very much by most as one can see by the responses above. Using a thoughtful essay about the subject for political drive-bys really is sad.
I'll add, Terry, it's apparent Zelensky isn't heeding Justin's advice then as he's smashing it out of the ball park on a daily basis.
Hmmm, couldn't care less on your opinions. Take note of that too.
Bye then. 👋
is that what Justin says
Wow! You've said it so well.
As well as the leaders being embarrassed, I think a good many of us feel embarrassed that we've not joined the fight. I know I feel like a voyeur watching the absolute horror on TV but just sitting on the sideline as if it's a sports event. We're being cast as cowards! Surely the time is well nigh that we should be screwing up our collective courage and saying damn the consequences ...
Well, the consequences could very well wipe out the world’s population or, at least, make living very nasty.
Andrew, I agree with your assessment of our leaders, here in Canada and the West in general. It truly makes one feel ashamed to witness the horrors Ukraine is enduring, essentially on our behalf, while we sit on the sidelines.
And yet… what more can we do? Do we truly believe that Putin will bring out the nukes if we enforce a no-fly zone? If so, do we have the right to take that risk? Most mornings when I read about the latest atrocities I wonder if maybe we should step up. But I honestly don’t know.
But anyway, if we’re talking about honour, perhaps I have more faith in us supposedly effete Canadians than many in this forum. I believe that if we were faced with a truly existential crisis we would draw upon reserves of courage and resolve that we don’t know we have. Fortunately we haven’t been tested – yet.
And BTW, it’s a shame to see how quickly some of the threads in this forum degenerate into name-calling. One of the things that attracted me to The Line was the respectful tone of debate. That’s a rare commodity these days, and I hope it continues here.
Neilster. I agree with much of what you say. But I disagree with your feeling we Canadians haven't been tested yet. For reasons I can't explain about myself as it comes from within, I'm taking Putin's invasion of Ukraine very personally (and I have Russian heritage!) Ukraine is a western independent country that has a forward/modern view of itself and has been working towards less corruption and more open democracy. By attacking Ukraine, Putin has declared war on not just Ukraine, but also on the rest of the west regardless of physical location. We are being tested. I agree that how we can do more is a difficult one. I lean towards taking a chance if we moved western military ships to the North Pacific, Baltic and Mediterrean we would be giving Putin a stronger message.
A sharp and excellent critique of people in Canada and other countries who had apparently decided that fighting (and sacrificing) for our freedoms and rights was passé.
I think your criticism of Mr Trudeau was entirely fair... nonetheless, his failure is our failure. We live in a democratic state where the people get to choose who it is they support. The fact that the opposition parties have failed (miserably) to propose credible leaders in response to the Liberal Party's embrace of Mr Trudeau speaks volumes about how lost they--and we--are.
My complaint WRT to the Prime Minister is this: On foreign policy, he has demonstrated a tendency to reactive policy and a desire to seek after the "big hit" in the short term.
Where is the evidence that this Prime Minister has sought to develop a long-term strategy that is not the product of trade and investment lobbyists or technocrats who tell us that we must do X or Y in order to ensure the continued viability of our strategic partnerships?
What has the Prime Minister and his government done to address the serious problems of recruitment and retention in the armed forces?
Has this Prime Minister done more to address the serious intelligence collection issues that plague CSIS in particular?
No. What we see from him on the foreign policy front is the reflex of the reactive.
This brought tears: our shameless, feckless leaders are being schooled by the Ukrainian people.
We are a convening country. What that means is that we are weak, unable to contribute or believe in anything of value but we can talk you to death. God forbid we hurt anyones feelings or have conflict over something as silly as freedom when we can all have safety. After all, are we are the first Post National state in a new transnational world. Borders are to keep people in, and any sign of pride in a once brave country has been diminished purposefully to destroy any thought of nationhood. There shall be no flag waving allowed in Ottawa as Canada , as a country, no longer exists. There is nothing to fight for, nor reason to take up arms. Only countries with an identity, pride, and who believe in freedom, ever need to fight a war. Sending Ukraine strength, honour (we no longer have need for any) and praying for a victory in your quest for sovereignty.
In your opinion. I would suggest that you have completely forgotten the accomplishments of this country on the battlefield throughout time....all the way up to Afghanistan. I think your blind hatred for the PM mixed with your bizarre concept of freedom...to be ignorant, may have affected your pride in country, but it sure as hell hasn't impacted mine.
Those words I wrote came straight out of your hero Justin Trudeau’s mouth in a speech to NYC graduates Sir! That shows you just how little attention you actually pay , or could it be the Trudeau national media does not report to Canadians on anything that the ideologue spews that reveal his true plans for his new world order. Your the person that has been blinded and misinformed as you obviously have no idea what he does and says as your too busy worshipping him. As for Afghanistan and treatment of our soldiers and veterans by Justin Trudeau, well sir, he spoke out loud in town hall saying they were asking for more than he could give! They were asking for too much! He said this after he gave ten million to Khadr for murdering an American soldier and blinded another while he, a so called Canadian, was over making bombs to kill our allies in Afghanistan. The same Justin Trudeau that did a big fat zero when Biden withdrew American Troops from Afghanistan to aid The interpreters that worked with our armed forces. For months before the withdrawal by Biden, Canadian veterans were begging Trudeau to do something to save the interpreters to which he did zip, diddly and squat.
You are not a proud Canadian, I heard you speak the same hateful language daily against those that stood for freedom and Canada and who united Canadians. Your hero Trudeau, and his media, continually denigrated and divided Canadians . He chose to divide us, just as you did, instead of standing for what is true and right. Your too busy worrying about yourself and your safety, to ever come to the call of war. You won’t even leave your home because of a virus, let alone to defend your Post National State that you aided in creating with Trudeau. Your blinded by your devotion to a false idol and you have no right to judge any other Canadian for being true to their country, it’s Constitution and our Charter of rights. Canada is a genocidal nation in his eyes and it must be replaced by his ideal Post National State. You better understand what you are standing for sir because if your a Trudeau puppet you can not be a proud Canadian. It no longer exists in his eyes. Our Canada was a sovereign nation, it is that no longer sir!
Marylou, I understand your frustration. However re Khadr I seem to be one of the few Canadians who concluded he was a young victim of his very misguided family. During the past 45 years of my life has been deeply involved in the Middle East. I've walked through lots of figurative mud, frustration, tears, yet happiness in this part of the world. Since being released and receiving money from our federal government, Khadr has lived a very quiet and respectful life and is committed to helping others. I think you have more homework to do on this subject.
My understanding on Khadr was that the government's own lawyers concluded that his rights had been violated, and it was better to settle than go to court where the award would likely be much higher. He was a kid fighting a war in a warzone; a child soldier. What do soldiers do?
I don't like it, but I can't argue the decision.
Funny those lawyers never said that to Harper. Soldiers from Canada do not kill their allies. He was a soldier from where he used to be from. That’s where he should have been returned to, not Canada.
I have heard others explain it in a similar way. I am not a fan of his parents and family who headed there for the specific reason to kill. When they were injured they flew back to Canada for healthcare and then returned to fight again. Whether his father was responsible for his actions is debatable. What you mean to say had he been 20 and was with his father, it would have been different due to his age. I believe he had more than just his father there and all were taught the same skills. What you need to do is explain that to the man’s family that he killed and the other that he blinded. He should have to at least provide restitution and aid to them for his crime. He should have to face them and allow them the right to condemn his deed. I am sorry but I can not, nor will I ever condone any one who takes the like of another purposely especially when you are killing the allies of the country you immigrated to. They should never have been allowed back into Canada. Many who aided our soldiers were left behind by the government of Canada, regardless of the pleas of our soldiers. It should be them that take the place of those that killed our allies. It should be them that are given refuge. Not him.
Marylou, given Omar Khadr isn’t the main topic of the article, and my response is long, I don’t plan to talk about it further. Plus I don’t want to piss off other readers or The Line’s fabulously generous creators.
Like you, I don’t like how the naturalized Cdn Khadr parents (now dead Egyptian father, Palestinian mother) took advantage of our social assistance & health care pgms. esp. given the max. most Cdns are allowed is 1 yr of LIMITED med coverage outside of Ontario, after which coverage is canceled. The parents and oldest sister’s values are non-standard to say the least, but Cdn law has protected them from prosecution and forfeiting their Cdn citizenship.
The Khadr’s had 7 children, most, including Omar were born in Canada, which made Omar a Cdn citizen, not an immigrant. The history of the family moving between multiple countries (Canada, Pakistan, Afghanistan) is dizzying. His father eventually sent Omar (who wanted to get away from his mother) & a couple of brothers to Afghanistan. Six mths after arriving there, Omar was involved in the deadly skirmish with American soldiers. The exact details are said to be blurry. One American officer there said Sgt. Speer was wearing Afghan garb and was helmetless, so I ask how would Omar know he was ‘purposely’ shooting at an American soldier? He was also alone without family and did not speak Afghan Pashtu or Dari. This was a foreign country to him.
Omar was 15 when this happened. He was the 1st person since WW II to be prosecuted for a war crime. I don’t hear any talk from Cdns re their anger over African child soldiers. Omar has also apologized to Sgt. Speers wife. Also, note that Khadr was severely wounded and blinded in one eye during the skirmish.
Omar had the extreme good luck of having a team of Cdn lawyers take up his case and one of his American military lawyers recognized the unfair treatment he experienced. He was also evaluated as having severe PTSD and being terribly abused at Guantanamo, yet was luckily identified as ‘redeemable’ given his young age and intelligence.
If people are angry re the legal and financial outcome, I don’t know why they don’t point their anger at a) his parents b) the Cdn and American legal systems, including the very bizarre existence of Guantanamo (which still has a few prisoners languishing there for over 20 years.) c) why the hell did NATO go into Afghanistan given no Afghani was involved in 911?
So far, Canada has not responded to the 2014 civil suit initiated by Speer’s wife. (Note the USA does not allow civil lawsuits against “acts of war”, so their lawsuit charges had to be changed.) Since then, we’ve heard nothing the lawsuit or about Omar & two other brothers who live quiet lives in Canada.
Some Cdns don’t consider Omar at age 15 to have been a child, plus THEIR child would NEVER do something like this. The minimum age (requiring parental consent) to join our military is 17. I’ve asked myself, well at what age should Cdns feel a person under age 17 still be considered a child? Is it 1 day after turning say 10? Or one day before? Do we want to be like Iran, where a female is considered an adult at age 9, but for a boy it’s 15? The reason for Iran’s logic is that boys take longer to mature. How convenient for the boys.
Some readers may say I defend Omar because of how ‘weird/nonstandard’ my own life has been. I’ve traveled to 30 countries starting at a young age. E.g. the former USSR (inc. the Caucasus and some ‘stan’ countries) (I’m half Russian), Afghanistan during the unexpected internal coup a year before Russia invaded, other Middle Eastern countries, and I later married an Egyptian and was living in Egypt during the Arab Spring. I can be as negative as anyone about these countries, but one thing it’s done is open my eyes and mind to seeing another POV. (I’m still working on this). I think Omar Khadr has more than paid his dues and he was worth saving.
Two other things I forgot to mention.
A) Four other Middle Eastern Cdn adult men (Arar, Almalki, El Maati and Nureddin) received a total of $40 million from our government for not handling their torture/imprisonment in other countries appropriately. Yet there wasn’t nearly the amount of negative public outcry about them.
B) Aside from Canada, the other countries with links to the Khadr’s were Afghanistan, Egypt, Pakistan and the USA. Virtually no one in the first three countries would have known or cared about it, and like many things related to Canada, it wasn’t major news in the USA. For reasons I don't understand, it sadly continues to eat away at a small % of Cdns.
Don't you dare tell me what I am from your whining soapbox of ignorance and hate. You know nothing. Zero. Nadda. You're understanding of Canadian history, and what has transpired in the last 10 years and why is so stunningly absent that it would be shocking...if it wasn't so consistent.
I really can't be bothered with this any longer, as there is no way to respond in a polite manner. You are everything that is wrong with this country. Ignorant, and proud of it.
David, I have suggested previously that you ignore this person. She is in deep trouble and there’s no use reasoning with her.
I have also reached the same conclusion. :)
Ohhh Tough words for a Trudeau troll. Maybe you will get a bonus. I watch what you say and you pounce on anyone speaking Ill of your boss , if your not a Trudeau troll, I apologize but I do t think I am wrong sir. Keep smiling Trudeau loves you.❤️
LOL. troll.
That is really rich coming from the two Trudeau paid trolls. No one may speak badly of their boss or take downs must happen. You two make it a team sport. If you can’t answer to the truth you must assure others the one saying them crazy. Priceless. I see why you respond so quickly to anyone on here who dare spurn your boss. Your a little too transparent. The saying you may fool some of the people some of the time but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Same goes for Trudeau.
That you think I'm a Trudeau supporter defies comprehension...or explains your complete lack of it.
It must be a special world for you...knowing nothing about everything, while professing blind ignorance of reality from your keyboard on a regular basis. That you again refer to us as trolls because we don't agree with you shows a level of maturity that should have been solved by about Grade 6.
I'll answer to the truth should you ever provide it, but I'm not optimistic. Spin and rubbish....right in your wheelhouse. Now go elect Pierre, and lose another election. If you're an example of the wisdom level of the party, I doubt you'll ever figure it out. Have a nice life.
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I agree with you and appreciate your analysis except that you just couldn't resist a dig at Trudeau, takes down the tenor of your article.
He calls it as he sees it. If it hurts, perhaps examine why.
I know why...it's the easiest way to curry favour with readers here in western Canada.
Well, considering one of The Line editors resides in Ontario, and that the author of this column resides in Montreal, it’s blatantly obvious that many who live in all parts of the country share the opinion that Turdeau and his band of feckless eejits have only themselves to blame for the abysmal leadership of this country. Go outside Canada and you will find an even worse opinion of him, if that’s even possible. Worst PM ever.
Hah! My experience has been exactly the opposite when travelling outside of Canada, guess it depends where you go and who you talk to. MAGA hats anyone?
BTW, I am well aware of who Matt Gurney and Andrew Potter are and where they live.
Your vast experience of exactly one does little to negate the facts. I look forward to reading your scathing critique in an upcoming column.
Sorry...what "facts"? You have an opinion based on your experience. that hardly makes it factual. Trudeau is useless. he has been since SNC, but the only reason that Scheer lost was Scheer's performance. That election was served to him on a platter and he still found a way to lose it. Erin had a bigger challenge because Trudeau was actually pretty good on COVID...lousy on everything else around it. Like it or not, the Conservatives have lost far more than Trudeau has won.....and that doesn't appear likely to change anytime soon.
I guess it's as vast as yours, though. Thanks for all of your insightful, pleasant comments.
Oh Terry, this lapdog persona you perform for the Libs is downright embarrassing; you’re making their sad scenario even worse; just stop. Perhaps go back and check the facts about who wrote this column…not wrong. Potter lives in Montreal.
Terry is a devoted Trudeau troll. I think it’s his job.
Then who is Andrew Potter?
The same would apply to whatever PM happened to occupy the chair. It's just JT's turn.
Could be, I do agree that we could be providing more concrete assistance.
What I was thinking is expediting the arrival of refugees in Canada. I know most people want to stay in their own country or near it but it seems there are still a number that want to come here. I don't know why (and in all fairness there may be a good reason) it takes so very long to process refugees.
I quite agree with your comment. It twists the piece from a focus on a hero to his country and an exemplar to the world to throwing a dart at Canada and Trudeau. In doing so, he decided to turn something which could have been positive into something negative – although Canada bashing seems to be quite a popular sport with both contributors and those who comment here.
Thx, I surely don’t agree with him on everything but I am so tired of western politicians (I’m a Saskie) who get elected & run on screeching at Trudeau. We have an effective premier & this is about all he does for policy & yet he’s popular.
Two thoughts:
I remember reading that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Robert Kennedy told his brother, the President: "Canada will give all aid short of help." I've never been able to find a source for that quote & so I have no idea whether it's true or not (and if not, it should be). If it is true, than it shows that nothing much has changed in the last 60 years or so either regarding our foreign policy or how it is genuinely viewed by decision-makers away from the cameras and microphones.
The other thought is that it wasn't too long ago when President Zelensky was not regarded very seriously either inside or outside his country. Indeed, many of the charges flung at Trudeau bear some resemblance to those flung at Zelensky. I'd like to think that if Canada was ever faced with an existential threat that our leadership (from any party on any level) would step up in similar fashion. Sometimes circumstances shape true leadership that was previously well-hidden but, hopefully, Canadians never have to find out because while I'd like to believe such a call would be answered with courage, I rather think it won't be...
Ukraine only became an independent country 30 years ago. This isn't a lot of time for it to reduce the worst aspects of Soviet rule that it inherited (e.g. corruption) and turn it into a 1st world standard of living. Most citizens in every country are impatient with whoever is in power. They expect fast improvements. I think it's terrible how the west still describes Zelensky as just an actor/comedian. My God, the man was educated in Russian, Ukrainian and English, trained as a lawyer and comes from a religious minority (Jewish). Now that's impressive for a person who is only 44 year old person. IMO Canada needs a few Zelenskys.
In the same vein, Churchill was turfed as soon as the war was over...for a while anyway.
based on the bickering of our various political responses to COVID, I don't share your optimism about Canada.
Churchill was also widely regarded as a 'has-been' politician in the years before WW2. Lincoln is another great leader who, even after being elected, got very little respect in the first months of his Presidency. And I agree, COVID certainly produced no political heroes but I did say, "I'd like to believe" so I'd classify it less as optimism and more as wishful thinking!😉
Another version of "I have a dream" :)
And Zelensky does not see himself as a hero
Thanks for your write up today. The Line gives me opinions I don’t find anywhere else. DG
When the day finally comes that I give up on The Line, it will be because of Marylou Speelman's unacceptable comments. Her outrageous nonstop hatred makes me sick to my stomach.
This is outstanding.
Great article. But I must quibble with sweeping statement like "the West doesn't know what to do..." Perhaps *some* parts of the West don't. But I hypothesize it is not alien to people who are "back row" - to use the lingo of Chris Arnade. For those not familiar with Arnade (who also has his own substack), back row people are those who value family, faith and place. In contrast, front row people value education, credentials and consumerism.
(PS any wonder why Jordan Peterson has appeal?)
Thanks. I'll follow up re Chris Arnade.