Super. So, who's going to jail? Anyone getting fired? No? Is there anything here at all that would prevent a future repetition of this kind of overreach?
And there's the biggest problem. No responsibility for their actions accept at the next election. By then voters have forgotten all about the past as they focus on the present day issues, or the latest gov't made crises. We are very poorly governed!
I am afraid that the folks who had their bank accounts interrupted, perhaps without cause, are in the same position as the Ottawa citizens and businesses which have no effective redress for the nuisances, trespass, inconvenience and disturbance from honking at night and disregard of traffic laws, and the various things that persuaded a Judge, after a hearing, to issue an injunction (requiring that the protest comply with the that the police refused to enforce.
Invoking the Emergencies Act was a face-saving move for the Trudeau government after weeks of political paralysis and indecision. They'd had the power to end the protests and the blockades all along, but couldn't bring themselves to use it and would've been humiliated to admit they could've done so all along.
That is a reasonable position. Ford/Kenney did NOT do their jobs, and delayed doing anything to embarrass the federal government. The Feds did NOT do their job in a timely manner either.
Brilliant! And if Mr. Kenney deserves a beer, all Canadians owe you and the entire team at the Canadian Constitution Foundation a few rounds of pitchers at your favourite pub or brasserie! Thank you!
The 2 premiers were playing politics. The convoy issue in Ottawa should have been resolved in Ottawa long before it was. Still, a not insignificant chance the federal court ruling is overturned. We will have to agree to disagree
It was not explicitly stated but Doug Ford bears the responsibility for a lot of this mess. He failed to stepped up when the people of Ontario needed him. If seen Ordinary Seamen and recuitsc with more leadership potential than that man.
I know that there is much understandable upset about government tinkering with money flows and whether/how it ends up in people's bank accounts. OK.
But would there be the same concern if the monies were being used for guns?
There are legitimate reasons to look at flows from foreigners for uses in Canada that may collide with Canadian interests or policy or fund illegality; just as there ought to be a high bar to allowing government access to information about those flows, let alone the power to temporarily block them.
But wasn't it Alberta that, not so long ago, was upset about "American environmental groups having too much influence in Canada, and maybe financing opposition - even illegal opposition - by local climate zealots?
Well, you correctly point out that national borders and international trade is federal BUT, BUT, BUT, it was the provinces that ended the border blockades BEFORE the EA was proclaimed. That meant that the EA was ONLY useful in Ottawa which, as you note, is provincial responsibility.
Therefore, it is clear that the EA was not needed; what was needed was that the various municipal and provincial authorities do their jobs. The federal authority was NOT needed.
DD, I absolutely agree that blackface should have shown his face and talked to the Convoy. They would have shouted him down, you can be sure, but he would have gained immense (well, a smidgeon) of credibility for having the courage to defend his (stupid) ideas. Instead, he insulted them, lied about them, seized their bank accounts and sent the cops in to arrest them. Some of them are still before the courts on incredibly bogus charges.
So, yes, he showed poor judgement in not speaking with - or at least to - the Convoy folks. Had he done so, I do believe that they would have wound down the stay in Ottawa on their own.
First, I don’t believe for a second that the PM speaking to protesters would have led to the blockade ending. Second, I don’t think we ever want our duly elected government negotiating its policies with a mob. Next time it could be an environmental protest demanding an end to (insert example here). Something tells me many of the supporters of the convoy would view actions to end that next protest differently.
Didn't Alberta also have a problem with getting tow trucks to help remove the Coutts blockade. Didn't Alberta ask Ottawa for help to that regard? I agree that the Trudeau Feds went to far with evoking the EMA. That move only showed Canadians how unprepared the authorities were, to handle the situation. Bottom line is we are poorly governed at all levels of government and it appears that it doesn't matter what political stripes they wear, as they're all incompetent and unable to properly govern us. Politicians are tasked with protecting our democracy, but often they are the problem when it doesn't fit into their idea of what Canadian democracy should look like, or threatens their power base. Canadian politics is in the toilet and it's our politicians who have put it there, with the approval of lazy Canadian voters, who won't take the time to properly investigate who they support.
No, this is not correct. There are holes in the judgement which will make it relatively easy to overturn. Kenney was the one who asked for help to manage the Coutts problem. Besides, international borders and trade are federal problems, and neither Ford nor Kenney did their jobs to restore order in the respective provinces - which IS a provincial jurisdiction. Bothe premiers did not fulfill their responsibilities, PERIOD.
The Coutts and Windsor situations were resolved before the federals acted. What remained were noise complaints and traffic inconvenience for a small proportion of Ottawa residents, hardly a national emergency. Also the last time I checked, that city does not sit on an international border.
Coutts is actually right by the AB/Montana border - I don't think it's right on it - but there's only one highway that flows through the border and it crosses Coutts first, so the flow across the border was cut off in AB during the blockade. However - I agree with you that clearly AB handled it on it's own and didn't need the feds to step in.
I think this argument is making a lot of assumptions. While I don't like Trudeau and haven't voted for him or his liberals in any election, our biggest problem at election time is voter apathy and low turnout. We then complain that the election isn't accurate (and yet it is - because the people who complain about liberals winning didn't get out and vote.)
If Trudeau finds a way to continue holding power beyond the next required election, I'll gladly admit to being wrong - but we still have regular elections in Canada and there are many varied opinions from the people who live in Canada. Hopefully the people who don't want another bunch of Trudeau years show up and vote this time.
Super. So, who's going to jail? Anyone getting fired? No? Is there anything here at all that would prevent a future repetition of this kind of overreach?
And there's the biggest problem. No responsibility for their actions accept at the next election. By then voters have forgotten all about the past as they focus on the present day issues, or the latest gov't made crises. We are very poorly governed!
I am afraid that the folks who had their bank accounts interrupted, perhaps without cause, are in the same position as the Ottawa citizens and businesses which have no effective redress for the nuisances, trespass, inconvenience and disturbance from honking at night and disregard of traffic laws, and the various things that persuaded a Judge, after a hearing, to issue an injunction (requiring that the protest comply with the that the police refused to enforce.
Invoking the Emergencies Act was a face-saving move for the Trudeau government after weeks of political paralysis and indecision. They'd had the power to end the protests and the blockades all along, but couldn't bring themselves to use it and would've been humiliated to admit they could've done so all along.
That is a reasonable position. Ford/Kenney did NOT do their jobs, and delayed doing anything to embarrass the federal government. The Feds did NOT do their job in a timely manner either.
Brilliant! And if Mr. Kenney deserves a beer, all Canadians owe you and the entire team at the Canadian Constitution Foundation a few rounds of pitchers at your favourite pub or brasserie! Thank you!
The 2 premiers were playing politics. The convoy issue in Ottawa should have been resolved in Ottawa long before it was. Still, a not insignificant chance the federal court ruling is overturned. We will have to agree to disagree
It was not explicitly stated but Doug Ford bears the responsibility for a lot of this mess. He failed to stepped up when the people of Ontario needed him. If seen Ordinary Seamen and recuitsc with more leadership potential than that man.
I know that there is much understandable upset about government tinkering with money flows and whether/how it ends up in people's bank accounts. OK.
But would there be the same concern if the monies were being used for guns?
There are legitimate reasons to look at flows from foreigners for uses in Canada that may collide with Canadian interests or policy or fund illegality; just as there ought to be a high bar to allowing government access to information about those flows, let alone the power to temporarily block them.
But wasn't it Alberta that, not so long ago, was upset about "American environmental groups having too much influence in Canada, and maybe financing opposition - even illegal opposition - by local climate zealots?
National borders and international trade is Federal jurisdiction.
As for disrupting peoples lives and income in Ottawa, that is in fact Provincial.
Well, you correctly point out that national borders and international trade is federal BUT, BUT, BUT, it was the provinces that ended the border blockades BEFORE the EA was proclaimed. That meant that the EA was ONLY useful in Ottawa which, as you note, is provincial responsibility.
Therefore, it is clear that the EA was not needed; what was needed was that the various municipal and provincial authorities do their jobs. The federal authority was NOT needed.
Well, on that Ken we agree.
I also think that PM Trudeau
Should have come out and discussed the issues with the protesters. He showed poor judgement in my opinion.
DD, I absolutely agree that blackface should have shown his face and talked to the Convoy. They would have shouted him down, you can be sure, but he would have gained immense (well, a smidgeon) of credibility for having the courage to defend his (stupid) ideas. Instead, he insulted them, lied about them, seized their bank accounts and sent the cops in to arrest them. Some of them are still before the courts on incredibly bogus charges.
So, yes, he showed poor judgement in not speaking with - or at least to - the Convoy folks. Had he done so, I do believe that they would have wound down the stay in Ottawa on their own.
First, I don’t believe for a second that the PM speaking to protesters would have led to the blockade ending. Second, I don’t think we ever want our duly elected government negotiating its policies with a mob. Next time it could be an environmental protest demanding an end to (insert example here). Something tells me many of the supporters of the convoy would view actions to end that next protest differently.
Didn't Alberta also have a problem with getting tow trucks to help remove the Coutts blockade. Didn't Alberta ask Ottawa for help to that regard? I agree that the Trudeau Feds went to far with evoking the EMA. That move only showed Canadians how unprepared the authorities were, to handle the situation. Bottom line is we are poorly governed at all levels of government and it appears that it doesn't matter what political stripes they wear, as they're all incompetent and unable to properly govern us. Politicians are tasked with protecting our democracy, but often they are the problem when it doesn't fit into their idea of what Canadian democracy should look like, or threatens their power base. Canadian politics is in the toilet and it's our politicians who have put it there, with the approval of lazy Canadian voters, who won't take the time to properly investigate who they support.
No, this is not correct. There are holes in the judgement which will make it relatively easy to overturn. Kenney was the one who asked for help to manage the Coutts problem. Besides, international borders and trade are federal problems, and neither Ford nor Kenney did their jobs to restore order in the respective provinces - which IS a provincial jurisdiction. Bothe premiers did not fulfill their responsibilities, PERIOD.
The Coutts and Windsor situations were resolved before the federals acted. What remained were noise complaints and traffic inconvenience for a small proportion of Ottawa residents, hardly a national emergency. Also the last time I checked, that city does not sit on an international border.
Coutts is actually right by the AB/Montana border - I don't think it's right on it - but there's only one highway that flows through the border and it crosses Coutts first, so the flow across the border was cut off in AB during the blockade. However - I agree with you that clearly AB handled it on it's own and didn't need the feds to step in.
Yep, lived in Calgary and know were Coutts is. My snarky international border comment refered to Ottawa.
Oh, I'd misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.
I think this argument is making a lot of assumptions. While I don't like Trudeau and haven't voted for him or his liberals in any election, our biggest problem at election time is voter apathy and low turnout. We then complain that the election isn't accurate (and yet it is - because the people who complain about liberals winning didn't get out and vote.)
If Trudeau finds a way to continue holding power beyond the next required election, I'll gladly admit to being wrong - but we still have regular elections in Canada and there are many varied opinions from the people who live in Canada. Hopefully the people who don't want another bunch of Trudeau years show up and vote this time.