There's an assumption that anyone criticizing Biden's age is automatically doing so to Trump's advantage and that is categorically not the case. Trump's old, too!
Couple of points - I find coverage of Biden's natural decline quite different from Trump's. The latter's raging incoherence gets a pass and every single one of Biden's senior moments is pounced on. I find the contrast interesting. Trump should be called out on every single one of his daily blatherings. That would be fair and balanced.
Neither should be running.
Secondly, I am very supportive of mandatory retirements. I think Canada's limit at age 75 for senators and judges a good thing. I think the US should do something similar. Honestly, looking at the American political leadership squad and one is immediately reminded of the Soviet Politburo of the late 1970s with Brezhnev and co. The contrast with the leadership elsewhere in the democratic world is stark - i.e. Macron, Trudeau, Sunak, etc.
The oldsters need to move on to their retirements and make room for a younger generation.
Legitimate! Though I can't help but wonder whether the perceived competence (or lack thereof) of those held up as "young" political leaders is what has led to sticking with the current gerontocracy
""Presidents have a lot of advisors" is likewise not a defence." Not only is this not a defence, it is in fact a significant negative. People don't get to vote for "advisors" and having more unelected decision makers is the exact opposite of democracy.
The difference between the U.S. system and a parliamentary system might be an issue here. It's not just about "advisors". U.S. presidents choose cabinet secretaries, other cabinet-level officials, Supreme Court justices, etc. The success of their administrations has a lot to do with the calibre of their appointments and their ability to manage their team. (Do any elected officials *not* have advisors, official or unofficial, except perhaps at the most local level?)
I am 73 and my wife is 75. I like to delude myself that I am as sharp as I ever was but, as I say, I like to delude myself. My wife, on the other hand, is sharper than ever; I guess she has figured me out by now.
The ultimate point is that both Biden and Trump are too old. Period. Don't even ask me about their cognitive decline (I do have opinions but ...); ask me instead about the likelihood that whichever one might win will actually live out the subsequent four years. That means that the US is really, really voting for the Vice-President who would take over. Kamala Harris? No thanks. XX for the GOP, selected by DT? You have to be kidding me.
I can't be the only one who thought that after George W Bush, Bill Clintona and Barack Obama that the US would shift to a younger cohort of leadership - can I? I suspect that the reality is that whoever is elected to the top job in the US will not finish out the term and voters shoule actually be focused on the VP in both camps. The top job takes a toll on the one seated in the oval office IF they are the ones doing the job. Advisors and assistants are, I suspect, doing much of Joe's heavy lifting so who are they and who voted for them?
To those who feel that democracy in the US will disappear if Trump is elected - do you really beilev that or are you ignoring the advisors who are running the oval office now? Now, take a look at Canada and tell em that there are not the deep divisions in this country as well - certainly not to the same extent but we are on the same path with our divisive politics (looking at you JT), everyone a victim, lack of respect for dissenting views (Lookin at you again JT) and heaven help us if we get the online hate/hurt feelings legislation that our feds are looking at or even what the NDP floated about speaking in favour of oil and natural gas. George Orwell would spin and Marx rub his hands in glee to see us now.
"To those who feel that democracy in the US will disappear if Trump is elected - do you really believe that?"
I think it's a substantial risk. Trump attempted a coup, and I think somebody who attempts one is likely to attempt another. It didn't work, and because it didn't work it seems kind of pathetic in retrospect, but I think it's important to recognize that most failed coups look pathetic. The perpetrators look dumb and the attempt gets a derogatory nickname like "the beer hall putsch". It causes people to underestimate the seriousness of the potential consequences had the coup been successful, and by extension to extend more forgiveness to the perpetrators than is wise.
The question of whether Biden (and Trump) are too old to be president is a bit like the question of when an elderly family member should stop driving. You know they're slipping, you know that it might put others at risk, but they're stubbornly insistent that they can do it so you cross your fingers hoping for the best to avoid an unpleasant confrontation.
An answer to this problem could be some sort of objective, impartial, and independent assessment of physical health and cognitive function. Accusations of ageism can be dismissed by making the testing mandatory for everybody regardless of age. Personal health information is always sensitive, but it's not unusual for positions with a lot of responsibility to require them. For example, corporate CEOs often need to undergo medical examinations to be insured as required by corporate regulations. Commercial airline pilots undergo similar scrutiny. Of course, this would've been awkward for some previous US presidents. FDR tried to conceal the fact he was essentially paraplegic on account of having had polio; JFK looked outwardly fit but had crippling back pain and Addison's disease; Reagan may have been in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease in his 2nd term.
Both the Biden and Trump campaigns have been shielding their candidates from scrutiny, and in the case of Trump, there's been obvious falsehoods regarding physical health. A letter from his personal doctor in 2016 turns out to have been dictated by Trump (as if the florid language and hyperbolic claims didn't tip off readers from the start), and claims about his weight and physical health also seem to be deliberately inaccurate: the 6'3" Trump's weight was reported as being about 215 lb. When asked about this during a recent interview, Arnold Schwarzenegger (who knows a thing or 2 about physical form and weight) scoffed and said "More like 315 lb." As a first step, maybe they should be challenged to play a televised round of golf against each other. Just 9 holes; no golf carts allowed so they have to walk the course. And they'll be miked and encouraged to converse during the game.
People can be competent at almost any age or they can get Alzheimers at almost any age. A better way to determine this is the same way we regulate drivers licenses. After a certain age you simply have a cognitive test. Ageism should be illegal but retirement based on cognitive function is entirely justified. PS. I'm not sure whether Biden or Trump would pass
A technical gripe: it is not appropriate to look at life expectancy at birth and compare it to someone who is 81 (or 77 and overweight). The real question is life expectancy of someone who is 81 years old for Biden, and 77 for Trump. .
Well, according to actuarial tables, Joe Biden has about a 70% chance of surviving to the end of a 2nd term and Donald Trump has a 78% chance of the same. That assumes they're both of average health. However, it doesn't tell us much about their *capacity* during the coming 5 years: lots of people will linger for a few years in a nursing home, but I doubt we'd argue that they've got the necessary capacity to handle one of the most stressful and demanding jobs on the planet.
The political class of the United States is dominated by a gerontocracy of long serving Senators and Congressmen who have hung around long enough to know the ropes and wily enough to sway the political landscape in their favour.
The gerontocracy of Capitol Hill are not necessarily buddies with the youngsters, particularly the young Democrats who are noisy and stranded on the far left outposts of the Party. It is my understanding that the Democrat Machine got behind Biden to muzzle the radical noisemakers until someone better came along. It appears that they are still searching.
And the Republicans? Good Lord. When the front runner boasts about his many legal fires that he is fighting, surely they can do better than that too?
The reference to the average life expectancy of a male born in 1942 or 1946 is not particularly relevant to this discussion. Much more relevant is the life expectancy of a male born in 1942 or 1946 who has achieved the age of, say, 75. This would screen out all those people who died from childhood diseases, silly accidents when young, and so on. Even that is not terrific because we really care about these two individuals; however, it would be a more useful application of life expectancy statistics.
As for your father helping with your move, I can only say that, as a 62-year old, I don't find his abilities all that surprising. I could easily help my children with a move. Of course, I still have three years to go. Who knows what might happen? 😉
I am in agreement that neither is fit to be president. Biden in particular has very problematic memory deficits that in a rational world, would disqualify him. I think the report about why Biden wasn't charged for holding classified documents speaks volumes. (It's also not fair to say that criticism of Biden is just to prop up Trump - I really hoped that Americans would realize how bad Trump is for the US and wouldn't put their support behind him. I don't understand how it's looking like a Trump vs Biden rematch again when neither is fit for presidency in my opinion.)
At any rate - there is a difference between saying someone has lost the ability to do critical portions of a job, versus being ageist. I don't think holding someone who wants to be president to the standards of cognitively intact and rational and able to handle disagreement without turning to insults is too big of an ask - nor should it be considered anything to do with age. If someone was 40 and had the same cognitive deficits as Biden, that person would equally be as unfit for presidency as Biden is in his 80's. Just because someone happens to be old with an issue, doesn't mean that pointing out the issue has anything to do with their age.
Thank you for the recap of the US Constitution and the different age limits between the Constitution and the US code with regard to the Commander in Chief age limit . I understand the Code of Federal Regulations is a compendium of rules promulgated by all federal executive departments agencies of the US and published in the Federal Register. So as such I’m not sure that these rules would override the Constitution. Also IIRC new rules and regulations are subject to a NPRM (notice of proposed rule making) where public input is sought prior to rules publication so it’s not a purely arbitrary process. So any plan to change the retirement age for the CinC would likely generate intense discussion.
My understanding is that Canada’s C in C is the reigning monarch represented by the Governor General and must be a living Canadian citizen. I could not find a mandatory retirement age. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could clarify this.
Couple of points - I find coverage of Biden's natural decline quite different from Trump's. The latter's raging incoherence gets a pass and every single one of Biden's senior moments is pounced on. I find the contrast interesting. Trump should be called out on every single one of his daily blatherings. That would be fair and balanced.
Neither should be running.
Secondly, I am very supportive of mandatory retirements. I think Canada's limit at age 75 for senators and judges a good thing. I think the US should do something similar. Honestly, looking at the American political leadership squad and one is immediately reminded of the Soviet Politburo of the late 1970s with Brezhnev and co. The contrast with the leadership elsewhere in the democratic world is stark - i.e. Macron, Trudeau, Sunak, etc.
The oldsters need to move on to their retirements and make room for a younger generation.
I was with you right up until your counter point of Macron, Trudeau, and Sunak...
Chuckle...I focused on youth, not competence..... :-)
Legitimate! Though I can't help but wonder whether the perceived competence (or lack thereof) of those held up as "young" political leaders is what has led to sticking with the current gerontocracy
""Presidents have a lot of advisors" is likewise not a defence." Not only is this not a defence, it is in fact a significant negative. People don't get to vote for "advisors" and having more unelected decision makers is the exact opposite of democracy.
The difference between the U.S. system and a parliamentary system might be an issue here. It's not just about "advisors". U.S. presidents choose cabinet secretaries, other cabinet-level officials, Supreme Court justices, etc. The success of their administrations has a lot to do with the calibre of their appointments and their ability to manage their team. (Do any elected officials *not* have advisors, official or unofficial, except perhaps at the most local level?)
The u.s president nominates cabinet and justices which are approved by the Congress, that is true.
Good article.
I am 73 and my wife is 75. I like to delude myself that I am as sharp as I ever was but, as I say, I like to delude myself. My wife, on the other hand, is sharper than ever; I guess she has figured me out by now.
The ultimate point is that both Biden and Trump are too old. Period. Don't even ask me about their cognitive decline (I do have opinions but ...); ask me instead about the likelihood that whichever one might win will actually live out the subsequent four years. That means that the US is really, really voting for the Vice-President who would take over. Kamala Harris? No thanks. XX for the GOP, selected by DT? You have to be kidding me.
So, get these two geezers off the stage. Now.
I can't be the only one who thought that after George W Bush, Bill Clintona and Barack Obama that the US would shift to a younger cohort of leadership - can I? I suspect that the reality is that whoever is elected to the top job in the US will not finish out the term and voters shoule actually be focused on the VP in both camps. The top job takes a toll on the one seated in the oval office IF they are the ones doing the job. Advisors and assistants are, I suspect, doing much of Joe's heavy lifting so who are they and who voted for them?
To those who feel that democracy in the US will disappear if Trump is elected - do you really beilev that or are you ignoring the advisors who are running the oval office now? Now, take a look at Canada and tell em that there are not the deep divisions in this country as well - certainly not to the same extent but we are on the same path with our divisive politics (looking at you JT), everyone a victim, lack of respect for dissenting views (Lookin at you again JT) and heaven help us if we get the online hate/hurt feelings legislation that our feds are looking at or even what the NDP floated about speaking in favour of oil and natural gas. George Orwell would spin and Marx rub his hands in glee to see us now.
"To those who feel that democracy in the US will disappear if Trump is elected - do you really believe that?"
I think it's a substantial risk. Trump attempted a coup, and I think somebody who attempts one is likely to attempt another. It didn't work, and because it didn't work it seems kind of pathetic in retrospect, but I think it's important to recognize that most failed coups look pathetic. The perpetrators look dumb and the attempt gets a derogatory nickname like "the beer hall putsch". It causes people to underestimate the seriousness of the potential consequences had the coup been successful, and by extension to extend more forgiveness to the perpetrators than is wise.
The question of whether Biden (and Trump) are too old to be president is a bit like the question of when an elderly family member should stop driving. You know they're slipping, you know that it might put others at risk, but they're stubbornly insistent that they can do it so you cross your fingers hoping for the best to avoid an unpleasant confrontation.
An answer to this problem could be some sort of objective, impartial, and independent assessment of physical health and cognitive function. Accusations of ageism can be dismissed by making the testing mandatory for everybody regardless of age. Personal health information is always sensitive, but it's not unusual for positions with a lot of responsibility to require them. For example, corporate CEOs often need to undergo medical examinations to be insured as required by corporate regulations. Commercial airline pilots undergo similar scrutiny. Of course, this would've been awkward for some previous US presidents. FDR tried to conceal the fact he was essentially paraplegic on account of having had polio; JFK looked outwardly fit but had crippling back pain and Addison's disease; Reagan may have been in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease in his 2nd term.
Both the Biden and Trump campaigns have been shielding their candidates from scrutiny, and in the case of Trump, there's been obvious falsehoods regarding physical health. A letter from his personal doctor in 2016 turns out to have been dictated by Trump (as if the florid language and hyperbolic claims didn't tip off readers from the start), and claims about his weight and physical health also seem to be deliberately inaccurate: the 6'3" Trump's weight was reported as being about 215 lb. When asked about this during a recent interview, Arnold Schwarzenegger (who knows a thing or 2 about physical form and weight) scoffed and said "More like 315 lb." As a first step, maybe they should be challenged to play a televised round of golf against each other. Just 9 holes; no golf carts allowed so they have to walk the course. And they'll be miked and encouraged to converse during the game.
People can be competent at almost any age or they can get Alzheimers at almost any age. A better way to determine this is the same way we regulate drivers licenses. After a certain age you simply have a cognitive test. Ageism should be illegal but retirement based on cognitive function is entirely justified. PS. I'm not sure whether Biden or Trump would pass
This is really simple. Joe is old. He may not survive his second term. But if Joe doesn't get a second term, America doesn't survive as a democracy.
A technical gripe: it is not appropriate to look at life expectancy at birth and compare it to someone who is 81 (or 77 and overweight). The real question is life expectancy of someone who is 81 years old for Biden, and 77 for Trump. .
IMO the real question is what does the succession look like in the event the president dies or is incapacitated.
Well, according to actuarial tables, Joe Biden has about a 70% chance of surviving to the end of a 2nd term and Donald Trump has a 78% chance of the same. That assumes they're both of average health. However, it doesn't tell us much about their *capacity* during the coming 5 years: lots of people will linger for a few years in a nursing home, but I doubt we'd argue that they've got the necessary capacity to handle one of the most stressful and demanding jobs on the planet.
Good point
Man! I just finished writing that exact point! I guess I should further down the comment board before contributing.
The political class of the United States is dominated by a gerontocracy of long serving Senators and Congressmen who have hung around long enough to know the ropes and wily enough to sway the political landscape in their favour.
The gerontocracy of Capitol Hill are not necessarily buddies with the youngsters, particularly the young Democrats who are noisy and stranded on the far left outposts of the Party. It is my understanding that the Democrat Machine got behind Biden to muzzle the radical noisemakers until someone better came along. It appears that they are still searching.
And the Republicans? Good Lord. When the front runner boasts about his many legal fires that he is fighting, surely they can do better than that too?
Biden and Trump should be playing with their (great) grandkids, not pretending they're up for the daily grind of the US Presidency.
That this is the best the Excited States can offer for their presidential nominees is revealing, and frightening.
Like & subscribe to @the_lineca
The reference to the average life expectancy of a male born in 1942 or 1946 is not particularly relevant to this discussion. Much more relevant is the life expectancy of a male born in 1942 or 1946 who has achieved the age of, say, 75. This would screen out all those people who died from childhood diseases, silly accidents when young, and so on. Even that is not terrific because we really care about these two individuals; however, it would be a more useful application of life expectancy statistics.
As for your father helping with your move, I can only say that, as a 62-year old, I don't find his abilities all that surprising. I could easily help my children with a move. Of course, I still have three years to go. Who knows what might happen? 😉
I am in agreement that neither is fit to be president. Biden in particular has very problematic memory deficits that in a rational world, would disqualify him. I think the report about why Biden wasn't charged for holding classified documents speaks volumes. (It's also not fair to say that criticism of Biden is just to prop up Trump - I really hoped that Americans would realize how bad Trump is for the US and wouldn't put their support behind him. I don't understand how it's looking like a Trump vs Biden rematch again when neither is fit for presidency in my opinion.)
At any rate - there is a difference between saying someone has lost the ability to do critical portions of a job, versus being ageist. I don't think holding someone who wants to be president to the standards of cognitively intact and rational and able to handle disagreement without turning to insults is too big of an ask - nor should it be considered anything to do with age. If someone was 40 and had the same cognitive deficits as Biden, that person would equally be as unfit for presidency as Biden is in his 80's. Just because someone happens to be old with an issue, doesn't mean that pointing out the issue has anything to do with their age.
I don’t subscribe to the Line to get more of the already too much Trump/Biden/USA news in my life.
Thank you for this.
BTW, you must be a baby!
Clarification. It’s the Governor General who must be a Canadian citizen not the reigning monarch. Apologies for the poor sentence.
No! The GG is the reigning monarch’s representative in Canada. The reigning monarch is the King/Queen of Canada.
Thank you for the recap of the US Constitution and the different age limits between the Constitution and the US code with regard to the Commander in Chief age limit . I understand the Code of Federal Regulations is a compendium of rules promulgated by all federal executive departments agencies of the US and published in the Federal Register. So as such I’m not sure that these rules would override the Constitution. Also IIRC new rules and regulations are subject to a NPRM (notice of proposed rule making) where public input is sought prior to rules publication so it’s not a purely arbitrary process. So any plan to change the retirement age for the CinC would likely generate intense discussion.
My understanding is that Canada’s C in C is the reigning monarch represented by the Governor General and must be a living Canadian citizen. I could not find a mandatory retirement age. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could clarify this.