That is the summative line Geoffrey. The electorate has it embedded.
In fairness, please tolerate an edit to “... “Trudeau remains the sole unifying force for a party whose main objective evolved into the pursuit of power because the electorate influenced the party to do so”.
The electorate will one day sour on the CPC and turn to the best government in waiting. The choices are always limited in Canada; so the Liberals are best to get on with renovating to be a good government in waiting, and the Conservatives with governing in the peace, order and good government Canadian way for us and them to realize the fruits of the diligent CPC renovations.
Given the historical actions of Liberals in that they continue to use government to transfer funds to there friends, I disagree with "they evolved" . Their party has always been this way. Just the longer they are in power the more noticeable it becomes.
I think that history shows that we Canadians have a fairly short memory so I don’t think it will be long term damage. As well, we suffer from “free stuff” syndrome which suggests that promising us goodies will shorten our memories even more. And, sadly, we seem to be mimicking our southern cousins in our tribal partisanship. So after one cycle goes by we will be back to status quo although it appears the libs will be severely punished this go around.
Not much will change until the Liberal rank and file accept that their Party is presiding over a serious mess and has no idea what to do about it. If that doesn’t bring a call for change, I don’t know what it will take.
Canadians in general don’t have any affinity with Trudeau to allow him to “go out on his own terms” and it would be helpful if Liberals adopted the same attitude.
I respectfully repeat my previous comment, the Liberal Party members need to accept that their Party is presiding over a serious mess.
If you can’t see the mess that is being inflicted on the daily lives of hard working people, perhaps other Liberals can steer you in that direction, free from hyperbole and ranting.
I've been pretty lenient of late mainly because pain meds mellow me out but that's enough of this. We've had a comment board pleasantly free of interpersonal sniping and bickering but my blocking finger hasn't fallen off yet.
Thanks Matt, I prefer to have comments unmoderated because like me, all subscribers to The Line are thoughtful, articulate commenters who do not require adult supervision in order to have an adult conversation. I thought of adding brilliant to the list of subscriber attributes but that seemed a little over the top.
It has been said many a time that Canadians don't vote in governments, the vote the preceding one out. I think we're there at present. Occasionally a party in the state of the Liberals will change leaders and save the day - I'm thinking of the British example with Major replacing Thatcher when no one thought the Tories had a prayer. However, it is 'occasionally'.
This means the Conservatives really only have to keep up a sensible level of sniping to preserve the current advantage and await the big day. Nice.
If, alternatively, they lurch too far in the direction of the social conservative policy preference world, a seed of doubt will flourish and what should be a slam dunk will not be. Urban Canada is left of centre as a generality and urban Canada is far larger, population-wise, than rural (albeit rural has more seats than it should). So, some careful positioning is required or it could all end in tears. The level of trust in the Conservative brand is low. The level of exasperation of the Liberal brand is high. The election, due in 2025 at the latest, is, on present indicators, for the Conservatives to lose. They are completely able to achieve this.
It will be very interesting to see how PP plays this in coming months - this past weekend's convention suggests he is quite capable of playing it well.
I hope the Boy Blunder sticks around to the bitter end just to endure the coming wrath of the electorate. If nothing else, Jr is unifying Canadians in their despising of the fool.
For this voter, the next election will be a tough one. None of the leaders inspires -- mostly because modern campaigning has turned them all into quip generators without a lot of substance.
I'm willing to wait for the platforms, but I'm not confident there will be a lot of serious proposals there, either. Most of the big federal issues are challenging and will require patience and a nuanced take on the challenges and opportunities which is a lot to expect from the current crop of parties.
I suspect this round will be picking the least worst choice based on a couple of policy priorities but I'm not expecting much.
I will vote for someone, but right now I'm unimpressed across the board.
Tony, you write, in part, ".... modern campaigning has turned them all into quip generators without a lot of substance...."
I agree with that but I respectfully stick up for the party leaders - somewhat, and it is painful - because, yes, they do issue quips or, as they are more commonly known, sound bites. However, however, however.
While all of the leaders - or any politico, for that matter - traffics in sound bites, I do see written and verbal commentary that is more thoughtful. The difficulty, I submit, is that that longer form commentary is insufficiently viewed by thoughtful members of the populace or the media and is primarily viewed by opposite partisans to find quotes that might be taken out of context. The fault lies with we, the populace, in that we depend on sound bites and are too lazy and thoughtless to search for, let alone consider, the more thoughtful discourse.
Agreed. To me ... we've turned politics into something akin to team sports, with people mostly focused on who is winning/losing (horserace reporting). It's the Leafs vs. The Habs. That may make for great Saturday Nite Hockey, but it's not a great way to approach demoncracy!
Politics is really a shared enterprise where what should be competing on is ideas (and policy proposals) not tribes. If through that process we find the best idea -- that's good for everybody. Or, if there are legitmate differences in what constitutes 'better' then finding workable compromises is how we ensure everyone has a stake in society.
No, it doesn't work as neatly as that in practice. But, the spirit of not viewing the 'other party' as the enemy but as an important part of the process is ... important! We've devolved into thinking of parties like sports teams and winning as the objective. To your point, though, that's on us ... perhaps people prefer the excitement of being on the winning team over the longer term advantage of better public policy!
I think this article is 2 years late. trudeau has been dead in the water; an albatross around his party's neck for some time. He can resign the leadership, or watch his party get the "Wynne Treatment" in 2025.
This is important to the time and place we are in.
In my opinion, the sooner and more definitely the Liberals "shake it off" and (try to) elect a new leader the better. But I doubt that the people (the Liberal Party) who have helped create this sense of entitlement and blindness to the real issues that matter to Canadians will move out of the way.
No, they'll just be there and things will keep being oh so boring, and oh so ineffective!
Frankly, I don't see much hope for real change of any kind from either party.
If there were, miracle of miracles, a leadership race, THEN I will quickly tune out if they can't begin to discuss the big, main issues with relevance, with lively debate, with measurable outcomes, with nuance, with long term vision. Oh, how I would like to hope!
But no, I'm afraid this election will be another "which candidate/party do you hate the least?" situation.
If the Liberals have few assets other than Trudeau, it's partly because Trudeau has had a habit of ridding himself of potential rivals. Trudeau seems possessed of some combination of overconfidence and insecurity: a lot of apparently competent ministers are given flawed mandates or shoved out the door. The flaws in many policies suggests group think and an intolerance of adverse advice. The time for the party to have pushed out Trudeau was probably 2019 or 2021; at this point they'll soon be back to the demoralized rump of the Dion/Ignatieff years, with nobody willful enough to lead the push to shove Trudeau out or lead the party going forward. As for Trudeau, his story as PM has so often echoed his father that I suspect we may need to wait for winter to settle on Ottawa before Justin takes his own "walk in the snow" and bows out.
I find it interesting that anyone would give Justin Trudeau any credit for political savvy. He has none - he has only held power because the LPC rode with the Canadians that believed in his name because of his father. Fortunately Canadians appear to be finally realizing that the LPC itself is not worthy. Justin will be a casualty of that.
The LPC has become the party of Justin Trudeau, you cannot remove one from the other, it's almost cult like. The only way he will leave is losing a general election. It's Nero burning down Rome at this point.
It would be interesting to hear commentators on the line address issues like this one in a more wholistic way. I am genuinely puzzled by the way in which our modern political parties manage dissent within their own ranks (and stifle debate, preferring instead to make the parties into vehicles for the "great leader").
Having travelled in places with authoritarian (and sometimes Leninist) political structures, I worry that we are headed in a bad direction AND that the main political parties (the Liberals in particular) are contributing to this trend.
At the very least, Liberal Party of Canada members need to get serious and tell Justin Trudeau in no uncertain terms that he is taking them down the road to Perdition.
One line stuck: “that Trudeau remains the sole unifying force for a party whose main objective is the pursuit of power”
That RIGHT THERE is reason enough to never vote for this group….
That is the summative line Geoffrey. The electorate has it embedded.
In fairness, please tolerate an edit to “... “Trudeau remains the sole unifying force for a party whose main objective evolved into the pursuit of power because the electorate influenced the party to do so”.
The electorate will one day sour on the CPC and turn to the best government in waiting. The choices are always limited in Canada; so the Liberals are best to get on with renovating to be a good government in waiting, and the Conservatives with governing in the peace, order and good government Canadian way for us and them to realize the fruits of the diligent CPC renovations.
Given the historical actions of Liberals in that they continue to use government to transfer funds to there friends, I disagree with "they evolved" . Their party has always been this way. Just the longer they are in power the more noticeable it becomes.
I can meet you half way. That begs the questions will the Liberals become extinct and who will become the government in waiting?
I think that history shows that we Canadians have a fairly short memory so I don’t think it will be long term damage. As well, we suffer from “free stuff” syndrome which suggests that promising us goodies will shorten our memories even more. And, sadly, we seem to be mimicking our southern cousins in our tribal partisanship. So after one cycle goes by we will be back to status quo although it appears the libs will be severely punished this go around.
Then we the electorate are the evolutionary catalyst who needs more good options to choose from.
Let's dispense with theory for now and give the CPC a practical kick at the can. It buys us time to waste on theory. (I am being facetious.)
It’s a sad commentary on any political party or country that Justin Trudeau would be viewed as the best alternative.
...and I was never aware that women over 55 were all blind.
Not much will change until the Liberal rank and file accept that their Party is presiding over a serious mess and has no idea what to do about it. If that doesn’t bring a call for change, I don’t know what it will take.
Canadians in general don’t have any affinity with Trudeau to allow him to “go out on his own terms” and it would be helpful if Liberals adopted the same attitude.
I respectfully repeat my previous comment, the Liberal Party members need to accept that their Party is presiding over a serious mess.
If you can’t see the mess that is being inflicted on the daily lives of hard working people, perhaps other Liberals can steer you in that direction, free from hyperbole and ranting.
I've been pretty lenient of late mainly because pain meds mellow me out but that's enough of this. We've had a comment board pleasantly free of interpersonal sniping and bickering but my blocking finger hasn't fallen off yet.
Thanks Matt, I prefer to have comments unmoderated because like me, all subscribers to The Line are thoughtful, articulate commenters who do not require adult supervision in order to have an adult conversation. I thought of adding brilliant to the list of subscriber attributes but that seemed a little over the top.
It’s business. We’ve found at a nasty comment board deters new subscribers.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
That’s right!
Liberals need to rebuild and stop pandering to minority views. They forgot that they must Gouvern for all of us.
Their time is done, as for the NDP, Jack Layton had illusions of grandeur and took down Paul Martin's Gouvernment. Now they support Trudeau.
They're both done, there is very little competence in either party.
Sad fact is that talented people won't descend to that level and dirty their hands with politics, doesn't leave us with too many options.
It has been said many a time that Canadians don't vote in governments, the vote the preceding one out. I think we're there at present. Occasionally a party in the state of the Liberals will change leaders and save the day - I'm thinking of the British example with Major replacing Thatcher when no one thought the Tories had a prayer. However, it is 'occasionally'.
This means the Conservatives really only have to keep up a sensible level of sniping to preserve the current advantage and await the big day. Nice.
If, alternatively, they lurch too far in the direction of the social conservative policy preference world, a seed of doubt will flourish and what should be a slam dunk will not be. Urban Canada is left of centre as a generality and urban Canada is far larger, population-wise, than rural (albeit rural has more seats than it should). So, some careful positioning is required or it could all end in tears. The level of trust in the Conservative brand is low. The level of exasperation of the Liberal brand is high. The election, due in 2025 at the latest, is, on present indicators, for the Conservatives to lose. They are completely able to achieve this.
It will be very interesting to see how PP plays this in coming months - this past weekend's convention suggests he is quite capable of playing it well.
I hope the Boy Blunder sticks around to the bitter end just to endure the coming wrath of the electorate. If nothing else, Jr is unifying Canadians in their despising of the fool.
For this voter, the next election will be a tough one. None of the leaders inspires -- mostly because modern campaigning has turned them all into quip generators without a lot of substance.
I'm willing to wait for the platforms, but I'm not confident there will be a lot of serious proposals there, either. Most of the big federal issues are challenging and will require patience and a nuanced take on the challenges and opportunities which is a lot to expect from the current crop of parties.
I suspect this round will be picking the least worst choice based on a couple of policy priorities but I'm not expecting much.
I will vote for someone, but right now I'm unimpressed across the board.
Tony, you write, in part, ".... modern campaigning has turned them all into quip generators without a lot of substance...."
I agree with that but I respectfully stick up for the party leaders - somewhat, and it is painful - because, yes, they do issue quips or, as they are more commonly known, sound bites. However, however, however.
While all of the leaders - or any politico, for that matter - traffics in sound bites, I do see written and verbal commentary that is more thoughtful. The difficulty, I submit, is that that longer form commentary is insufficiently viewed by thoughtful members of the populace or the media and is primarily viewed by opposite partisans to find quotes that might be taken out of context. The fault lies with we, the populace, in that we depend on sound bites and are too lazy and thoughtless to search for, let alone consider, the more thoughtful discourse.
Agreed. To me ... we've turned politics into something akin to team sports, with people mostly focused on who is winning/losing (horserace reporting). It's the Leafs vs. The Habs. That may make for great Saturday Nite Hockey, but it's not a great way to approach demoncracy!
Politics is really a shared enterprise where what should be competing on is ideas (and policy proposals) not tribes. If through that process we find the best idea -- that's good for everybody. Or, if there are legitmate differences in what constitutes 'better' then finding workable compromises is how we ensure everyone has a stake in society.
No, it doesn't work as neatly as that in practice. But, the spirit of not viewing the 'other party' as the enemy but as an important part of the process is ... important! We've devolved into thinking of parties like sports teams and winning as the objective. To your point, though, that's on us ... perhaps people prefer the excitement of being on the winning team over the longer term advantage of better public policy!
I think this article is 2 years late. trudeau has been dead in the water; an albatross around his party's neck for some time. He can resign the leadership, or watch his party get the "Wynne Treatment" in 2025.
This is important to the time and place we are in.
In my opinion, the sooner and more definitely the Liberals "shake it off" and (try to) elect a new leader the better. But I doubt that the people (the Liberal Party) who have helped create this sense of entitlement and blindness to the real issues that matter to Canadians will move out of the way.
No, they'll just be there and things will keep being oh so boring, and oh so ineffective!
Frankly, I don't see much hope for real change of any kind from either party.
If there were, miracle of miracles, a leadership race, THEN I will quickly tune out if they can't begin to discuss the big, main issues with relevance, with lively debate, with measurable outcomes, with nuance, with long term vision. Oh, how I would like to hope!
But no, I'm afraid this election will be another "which candidate/party do you hate the least?" situation.
If Trudeau goes they will be back to a rump of 32 seats. If he stays, they may get annihilated anyway.
Good times for Liberals. Good on them.
If the Liberals have few assets other than Trudeau, it's partly because Trudeau has had a habit of ridding himself of potential rivals. Trudeau seems possessed of some combination of overconfidence and insecurity: a lot of apparently competent ministers are given flawed mandates or shoved out the door. The flaws in many policies suggests group think and an intolerance of adverse advice. The time for the party to have pushed out Trudeau was probably 2019 or 2021; at this point they'll soon be back to the demoralized rump of the Dion/Ignatieff years, with nobody willful enough to lead the push to shove Trudeau out or lead the party going forward. As for Trudeau, his story as PM has so often echoed his father that I suspect we may need to wait for winter to settle on Ottawa before Justin takes his own "walk in the snow" and bows out.
I just hope He and they both go. Soon would be GOOD.
Trudeau made sure that he was the best/only alternative. Look at the quality people that have left of their own accord or were forced out.
I find it interesting that anyone would give Justin Trudeau any credit for political savvy. He has none - he has only held power because the LPC rode with the Canadians that believed in his name because of his father. Fortunately Canadians appear to be finally realizing that the LPC itself is not worthy. Justin will be a casualty of that.
... but women over 55 obviously still like his hair.
The LPC has become the party of Justin Trudeau, you cannot remove one from the other, it's almost cult like. The only way he will leave is losing a general election. It's Nero burning down Rome at this point.
It would be interesting to hear commentators on the line address issues like this one in a more wholistic way. I am genuinely puzzled by the way in which our modern political parties manage dissent within their own ranks (and stifle debate, preferring instead to make the parties into vehicles for the "great leader").
Having travelled in places with authoritarian (and sometimes Leninist) political structures, I worry that we are headed in a bad direction AND that the main political parties (the Liberals in particular) are contributing to this trend.
At the very least, Liberal Party of Canada members need to get serious and tell Justin Trudeau in no uncertain terms that he is taking them down the road to Perdition.