Great listen on the drive in this morning. For public consumption, here's my CFRC story (which I'm sharing to point out the basics that we need to start getting right):
I graduated from journalism school in Vancouver in 2009 and took a job as a city hall reporter in a town on the fringe of Edmonton. The job wasn't what I hoped. At the same time, my brother was serving with 1VP PPCLI and about to deploy as part of TF309 to Afghanistan for a 9-month tour. I decided journalism wasn't for me, the military was.
I visited the CFRC office in Edmonton and submitted my application to become a MARS officer with the RCN (bro was army so I wasn't doing that). The NSS had just been announced and I told the recruiter it interested me to get in at a time when a new fleet of frigates would be built and deployed. He laughed and told me I'd be a captain by the time they hit tidewater... how right he was.
I submitted my app, was told they were recruiting for MARS officers and my application would be prioritized. My ex convinced me to move back to Vancouver while I finished the recruiting process to be deployed to Montreal for basic before being posted in Halifax or Esquimalt. When I got to Vancouver, I was told CFRC wasn't recruiting for MARS. My best option in RCN was to become an engineering officer. I asked whether I needed an engineering degree. No, no, I was told, we give you all that. Okay, fine, put me down as an engineer then.
I subsequently did all the exams and tests, no issues. It took longer than anticipated but wasn't brutally long. When I got to my interview with the Lt, it went like this:
"Welcome. I can see you've already screwed up your application."
"How so?"
"You applied to be an engineering officer and you have a journalism degree. You need an engineering degree."
"I was told otherwise."
"Well, you were told wrong."
"I see. I'd still like to join. I originally applied as a MARS officer."
"Really? Why did you switch?"
"Because I was told you aren't hiring for MARS anymore."
*exhausted sigh*
"You were told wrong. We are. Would you like me to switch you to MARS?"
"Yes, sir."
So, I was. More interviews. Meantime, the protracted recruitment meant I needed to find work to pay the bills. I landed a plum gig as a resource reporter at Business in Vancouver Newspaper. I fell in love with it while waiting for the RCN. Ultimately, I was selected, given my service number and I turned down the job because, at that point, journalism made a come back for me.
Three years later, while living in Prince George, I applied to the local reserve company (RM RANG) as an infantry officer (ironic, given my earlier misgivings about the army), got in and served three years (best described as an extended episode of MASH, on my part). Ultimately, I wasn't a successful soldier due to injury, having kids, etc. but I served alongside some great people, learned a lot, and saw no shortage of hilarious fuckery in both the CFRC process, as well as how reserve units are supplied, led and trained (didn't get a uniform or any kit for 3 months, what I eventually got was used, beat up, stunk and didn't fit ; and there never seemed to be a supply of live ammunition so infantry could get good at, you know, being riflemen).
My experience left me with this concluding thought: CAF has an incredible history, is full of excellent and passionate people doing their best, but the lack of political support for the entirety of my life has wiped out morale and optimism and transformed its culture into a place of cynicism, ass-covering caution and make-work projects that sound good politically but don't serve the security needs of our citizens or allies.
It needs a government that invests in it, stands up for it and elevates leaders - no matter rank - who are solid people with a desire to drive the change it needs.
A government's first responsibility is the security of its people. Domestically that means first responders and emergency services, internationally that means defensive capabilities.
Glad to see the investment announced yesterday. Curious as a public servant to see how the funding is deployed and to what.
Man, honestly, you made it further than I did. Showed up, did interview with the Navy, did an officer test, and they were like, wow, you're great. Exactly what we need. But come back in a year. We're full this year. So I did. And they were like, hey, we remember you. Sorry, still full. Come back in a year. So I did. And some Army dude was like, hey, yeah, navy has enough officers, but why not be a private in the army? I politely declined. (No offence to the Army. But I've got a wonky knee and ankle from old injuries and didn't love the idea of being dismounted infantry in Afghanistan while every other dude in the unit runs to cover WAY faster than I could.) So that was that.
Legit. Army wasn't my first choice, obviously, nor infantry once army became the choice. But that's what we have in Prince George, and I did thoroughly enjoy my three years and would have continued had I not herniated a disc and got back surgery (wife told me that it wouldn't be wise for long-term health continuing to train for that kind of work).
My hat off for you. I have a very clear picture of the generation-after-generation institutional dysfunction you are describing.
A minor difference of opinion on a point here. ... A Canadian "Liberal" government's first responsibility is to secure it's own re-election at any cost, by using taxpayers own money and many deceptions to dupe the citizens. ... Defense-related matters are just a part of that shellgame, now with Carney just the same as before.
My daughter was part of a group of 60 Sea Cadets from BC who took part in a "Sailor for a Week" experience with the Navy over spring break. The Navy was clearly making an aggressive recruiting sales pitch to a group of senior cadets. My daughter came back totally jazzed about joining the Navy, and I think they'll get her, but only if they get the recruiting process straightened out.
I still think RCN is the way to go - great training, see the world while you're still able to and you get posted in places with relatively mild climates (with greatest respect, Wainwright, Shilo, Moose Jaw, Trenton and Gagetown were not super high on my list of places to live). Of course, I'm from B.C. - we tend not to want to go east of the Rockies ;)
What makes us think that the government will spend extra money in a way that efficiently adds to our military power? How effective has any new government spending in recent decades been, let alone military spending?
Or is it mission accomplished just by spending money, and nobody really cares about actual effectiveness?
One additional complication for building up the military procurement establishment are the bilingualism requirements for the federal civil service: "Positions that have supervisory or management functions must be identified as Bilingual in order to respect the language-of-work rights of employees."
The DND is trying to recruit experienced professionals for program management and procurement; politically-driven requirements like bilingualism sharply restricts the pool of candidates. 18% of Canadians report they're capable of conducting a conversation in both French and English. The fluency required to conduct a *technical* discussion in another language is much more demanding than an informal conversation.
A sensible approach would waive this requirement, but official bilingualism is one of those sacred cows that's going to be very, very difficult for any political party to deal with. It's even worse for a Liberal minority government.
For me, I think a nation's military is a reflection of its foreign policy which has been largely botched by Trudeau and his team. Having served and having a son currently serving, throwing money to get to 2% GDP without having military purchases made in line with an overall rebuild of the CF, will be wasted money. Unless a war starts and Canada is involved, I have no reason to believe there will be any change.
The Liberal voters (Boomers & women) will not want to spend more on defense because that spending won't benefit them. The Conservative voters (Gen X & Y) will want to know how this spending will get them a home, a good job and a secure future for their kids (OK, maybe defense speaks to the last one). Defense does nothing for them.
Voting Canadians have swallowed the lie that our lifestyle won't cost us any more than it does now. Convincing them otherwise without admitting that lie is beyond any (or all) Canadian politician.
It's interesting that Carney's voting coalition has direct overlap with people who until 5 seconds ago openly questioned whether we should even have a military since the US would always protect us (for free of course). Their brief enamour with things military will end as soon as Trump is gone, since in their imaginings he's the one we are defending ourselves against.
Conservatives are highly persuadable to support more military spending, but it has to be effective and tangible, and it has to come from somewhere that isn't tax increases or borrowing/printing. Start with cancelling all those consultants and dropping per capita government bureaucracy to 2015 levels. That should buy a few squadrons of Gripens or Rafales.
I was thinking that one option for paying for the increase in military spending might be something like the WWII war bonds. Rather than borrowing though, increase the GST by adding a defense component. We currently collect about $51 billion annually from GST (https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/cpc-pac/2024/vol1/s3/rvnu-eng.html#t3.3). A 1% bump would provide $10 billion annually. If the funds were earmarked specifically for defense, I think it would be politically palatable for the majority of Canadians. Just a thought.
I too think that a modern version of military investment bonds would be worth considering, if only for giving people a direct stake in things. This would make them more likely to follow what’s being done with their money!
I know that's a joke, but it's actually not true. Canada and the US had no problem with spending when they joined WW2, but it still took quite a long time to make that spending effective.
Oh I'm more than willing to acknowledge that in Canada the "possible" includes spending multiple percent more GDP on defence with no appreciable improvement in military capacity :)
Thanks for an informative discussion of a topic that is almost taboo in Canada. Once more Carney has identified a clear goal and provided a map to get there, but he has not identified the difficulties nor the way around these difficulties. Once more the proof of the pudding rests in the tasting.
The bureaucrats don't want to give up the simple stuff (handguns). They're scared to take on the big stuff because the scope of failure is so large. And don't forget, bureaucrats are 100% risk-averse.
It's pushing an 8.8 kg projectile to 1,750 m/s with a barrel pressure of ~400 atmospheres - yup, pretty big gout of hot gas is going to come out the business end!
Great listen on the drive in this morning. For public consumption, here's my CFRC story (which I'm sharing to point out the basics that we need to start getting right):
I graduated from journalism school in Vancouver in 2009 and took a job as a city hall reporter in a town on the fringe of Edmonton. The job wasn't what I hoped. At the same time, my brother was serving with 1VP PPCLI and about to deploy as part of TF309 to Afghanistan for a 9-month tour. I decided journalism wasn't for me, the military was.
I visited the CFRC office in Edmonton and submitted my application to become a MARS officer with the RCN (bro was army so I wasn't doing that). The NSS had just been announced and I told the recruiter it interested me to get in at a time when a new fleet of frigates would be built and deployed. He laughed and told me I'd be a captain by the time they hit tidewater... how right he was.
I submitted my app, was told they were recruiting for MARS officers and my application would be prioritized. My ex convinced me to move back to Vancouver while I finished the recruiting process to be deployed to Montreal for basic before being posted in Halifax or Esquimalt. When I got to Vancouver, I was told CFRC wasn't recruiting for MARS. My best option in RCN was to become an engineering officer. I asked whether I needed an engineering degree. No, no, I was told, we give you all that. Okay, fine, put me down as an engineer then.
I subsequently did all the exams and tests, no issues. It took longer than anticipated but wasn't brutally long. When I got to my interview with the Lt, it went like this:
"Welcome. I can see you've already screwed up your application."
"How so?"
"You applied to be an engineering officer and you have a journalism degree. You need an engineering degree."
"I was told otherwise."
"Well, you were told wrong."
"I see. I'd still like to join. I originally applied as a MARS officer."
"Really? Why did you switch?"
"Because I was told you aren't hiring for MARS anymore."
*exhausted sigh*
"You were told wrong. We are. Would you like me to switch you to MARS?"
"Yes, sir."
So, I was. More interviews. Meantime, the protracted recruitment meant I needed to find work to pay the bills. I landed a plum gig as a resource reporter at Business in Vancouver Newspaper. I fell in love with it while waiting for the RCN. Ultimately, I was selected, given my service number and I turned down the job because, at that point, journalism made a come back for me.
Three years later, while living in Prince George, I applied to the local reserve company (RM RANG) as an infantry officer (ironic, given my earlier misgivings about the army), got in and served three years (best described as an extended episode of MASH, on my part). Ultimately, I wasn't a successful soldier due to injury, having kids, etc. but I served alongside some great people, learned a lot, and saw no shortage of hilarious fuckery in both the CFRC process, as well as how reserve units are supplied, led and trained (didn't get a uniform or any kit for 3 months, what I eventually got was used, beat up, stunk and didn't fit ; and there never seemed to be a supply of live ammunition so infantry could get good at, you know, being riflemen).
My experience left me with this concluding thought: CAF has an incredible history, is full of excellent and passionate people doing their best, but the lack of political support for the entirety of my life has wiped out morale and optimism and transformed its culture into a place of cynicism, ass-covering caution and make-work projects that sound good politically but don't serve the security needs of our citizens or allies.
It needs a government that invests in it, stands up for it and elevates leaders - no matter rank - who are solid people with a desire to drive the change it needs.
A government's first responsibility is the security of its people. Domestically that means first responders and emergency services, internationally that means defensive capabilities.
Glad to see the investment announced yesterday. Curious as a public servant to see how the funding is deployed and to what.
Man, honestly, you made it further than I did. Showed up, did interview with the Navy, did an officer test, and they were like, wow, you're great. Exactly what we need. But come back in a year. We're full this year. So I did. And they were like, hey, we remember you. Sorry, still full. Come back in a year. So I did. And some Army dude was like, hey, yeah, navy has enough officers, but why not be a private in the army? I politely declined. (No offence to the Army. But I've got a wonky knee and ankle from old injuries and didn't love the idea of being dismounted infantry in Afghanistan while every other dude in the unit runs to cover WAY faster than I could.) So that was that.
Legit. Army wasn't my first choice, obviously, nor infantry once army became the choice. But that's what we have in Prince George, and I did thoroughly enjoy my three years and would have continued had I not herniated a disc and got back surgery (wife told me that it wouldn't be wise for long-term health continuing to train for that kind of work).
My hat off for you. I have a very clear picture of the generation-after-generation institutional dysfunction you are describing.
A minor difference of opinion on a point here. ... A Canadian "Liberal" government's first responsibility is to secure it's own re-election at any cost, by using taxpayers own money and many deceptions to dupe the citizens. ... Defense-related matters are just a part of that shellgame, now with Carney just the same as before.
My daughter was part of a group of 60 Sea Cadets from BC who took part in a "Sailor for a Week" experience with the Navy over spring break. The Navy was clearly making an aggressive recruiting sales pitch to a group of senior cadets. My daughter came back totally jazzed about joining the Navy, and I think they'll get her, but only if they get the recruiting process straightened out.
I still think RCN is the way to go - great training, see the world while you're still able to and you get posted in places with relatively mild climates (with greatest respect, Wainwright, Shilo, Moose Jaw, Trenton and Gagetown were not super high on my list of places to live). Of course, I'm from B.C. - we tend not to want to go east of the Rockies ;)
What makes us think that the government will spend extra money in a way that efficiently adds to our military power? How effective has any new government spending in recent decades been, let alone military spending?
Or is it mission accomplished just by spending money, and nobody really cares about actual effectiveness?
The key is to make the announcement. Nothing matters after that.
Excellent and timely episode, with a huge amount of valuable content. Thanks Matt for teeing this interview up with Christian.
One additional complication for building up the military procurement establishment are the bilingualism requirements for the federal civil service: "Positions that have supervisory or management functions must be identified as Bilingual in order to respect the language-of-work rights of employees."
The DND is trying to recruit experienced professionals for program management and procurement; politically-driven requirements like bilingualism sharply restricts the pool of candidates. 18% of Canadians report they're capable of conducting a conversation in both French and English. The fluency required to conduct a *technical* discussion in another language is much more demanding than an informal conversation.
A sensible approach would waive this requirement, but official bilingualism is one of those sacred cows that's going to be very, very difficult for any political party to deal with. It's even worse for a Liberal minority government.
For me, I think a nation's military is a reflection of its foreign policy which has been largely botched by Trudeau and his team. Having served and having a son currently serving, throwing money to get to 2% GDP without having military purchases made in line with an overall rebuild of the CF, will be wasted money. Unless a war starts and Canada is involved, I have no reason to believe there will be any change.
The Liberal voters (Boomers & women) will not want to spend more on defense because that spending won't benefit them. The Conservative voters (Gen X & Y) will want to know how this spending will get them a home, a good job and a secure future for their kids (OK, maybe defense speaks to the last one). Defense does nothing for them.
Voting Canadians have swallowed the lie that our lifestyle won't cost us any more than it does now. Convincing them otherwise without admitting that lie is beyond any (or all) Canadian politician.
It's interesting that Carney's voting coalition has direct overlap with people who until 5 seconds ago openly questioned whether we should even have a military since the US would always protect us (for free of course). Their brief enamour with things military will end as soon as Trump is gone, since in their imaginings he's the one we are defending ourselves against.
Conservatives are highly persuadable to support more military spending, but it has to be effective and tangible, and it has to come from somewhere that isn't tax increases or borrowing/printing. Start with cancelling all those consultants and dropping per capita government bureaucracy to 2015 levels. That should buy a few squadrons of Gripens or Rafales.
I was thinking that one option for paying for the increase in military spending might be something like the WWII war bonds. Rather than borrowing though, increase the GST by adding a defense component. We currently collect about $51 billion annually from GST (https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/cpc-pac/2024/vol1/s3/rvnu-eng.html#t3.3). A 1% bump would provide $10 billion annually. If the funds were earmarked specifically for defense, I think it would be politically palatable for the majority of Canadians. Just a thought.
I too have been thinking defense bonds are the only way we're going to get anywhere.
I too think that a modern version of military investment bonds would be worth considering, if only for giving people a direct stake in things. This would make them more likely to follow what’s being done with their money!
Anything is possible - at least in the short term - when you are willing to print unlimited money.
I know that's a joke, but it's actually not true. Canada and the US had no problem with spending when they joined WW2, but it still took quite a long time to make that spending effective.
And we are far less capable today.
Oh I'm more than willing to acknowledge that in Canada the "possible" includes spending multiple percent more GDP on defence with no appreciable improvement in military capacity :)
Why don't we let Europe worry about their own problems? There's no reason to use our money or our sons.
Because if we thought like that 81 years ago we would all be speaking German now. I’m too old to learn Russian or Chinese now…
Europe has the population and capital to crush Russia should they choose to do so. Canada has problems to solve at home.
Superb, informative, podcast. Carney will have to drag some people kicking & screaming to get anywhere.
Some purchases actually might happen, 'cuz internal Canadian political situation sez it is coming to that time.
The land-based components of the new military equipment will be handy for use by Ottawa to oppress Western Canada.
Thanks for an informative discussion of a topic that is almost taboo in Canada. Once more Carney has identified a clear goal and provided a map to get there, but he has not identified the difficulties nor the way around these difficulties. Once more the proof of the pudding rests in the tasting.
The bureaucrats don't want to give up the simple stuff (handguns). They're scared to take on the big stuff because the scope of failure is so large. And don't forget, bureaucrats are 100% risk-averse.
Does that much flash fire really come out of a Leopard II?
It's pushing an 8.8 kg projectile to 1,750 m/s with a barrel pressure of ~400 atmospheres - yup, pretty big gout of hot gas is going to come out the business end!
Thx George. I was in Gagetown in the 80s and don’t recall that much flash from the L1s