Thank you both!! Seriously, why can't there be a case for an approach where the whole country can get behind it and not rely on slagging Alberta? All Trudeau's talk about Smith having to choose between Trump and Canada is a load. Danielle Smith did not sell out the country. With Trudeau and the Liberals so wrapped up in their own ... selves, Smith was getting ahead of the possibility that no one was going to step up and lead the country as a whole. Many people seem to forget that just barely 10 days ago our govt decided to call it a day with no one at the rudder. There was zero indication that Trudeau would make any effort whatsoever to pull together some sort of "team." Nope, I don't live in Alberta. If there is a weakest link I would say it's the ones who will go along with any plan that they don't have to come up with. (Eby.)
Manitoba produces 4.000,000 lbs of French Fries a day - 7 days a week & 50 weeks a year - the largest oats & field pea plant processing plants in the Western World & 120,000,000 lbs edible beans, then there are soybeans, corn, wheat & canola and some hemp - most goes to the US! Time to quit the utter bullshit from Ottawa & Toronto - stop the threats to the US & let’s have a national election so the Government of Canada has some authority to negotiate with the US! Who wins the Liberal leadership is so utterly irrelevant - they got us into this vulnerable national position and deserve the dustbin of history!
But PP is with Kevin O'Leary on that. Let's all be friends and get rich. I can't help but distrust trump enormously. I've never seen anything about him that would convince me he's a well-intentioned man. Except for his own personal benefit.
I do hope you’re right! But having plowed through the Heritage Foundation’s Project 25, one learns of a long-term plan that has depended on trump only insofar as he brought with him a devoted maga base. Cherry on the top came with backing from the ultra-rich … after various backroom negotiations we can only speculate about. Bottom line is, this is just the beginning. Peter Thiel, JD Vance and the P25 cabal are not in this for the short-term. This is how I see it. Again, I’d like to be wrong.
I hope it is wrong as well, and quite frankly I wouldn't bet my house on it. That said, the chance isn't zero either and I could see them get a few wins. The issue is what wins they will get?
Man the Heritage Foundation has changed though, wow.
The Energy East pipeline was killed by Denis Coderre when he was mayor of Montreal and he rallied Montrealers and then Quebecers to oppose our "Dirty Oil!" That, in turn, caused the Premier of Quebec to oppose the pipeline and then the federal government said that there would have to be MORE, MORE, I TELL YOU! hearings so Trans Canada Corporation, the proponent of the pipeline, folded their tent and withdrew their application. This was popularly seen by the LPC and their acolytes as TCC saying that the pipeline was not economic but what was not economic was the enormous cost of MORE, MORE, I TELL YOU! hearings when hearings had already be held. Just for those who think that was a foolish decision by TCC or don't believe that chronology to fold and walk away, I refer you to TMX and that incredibly, enormous and stupid cost that could only have been borne by a government.
Now, as to "No business case" that was the phrase that was offered by the Face Painter to explain when he turned away the German Chancellor who came to Canada to abjectly plead for Canadian natural gas after Russian gas became unavailable and his country faced enormous shortages of heating fuel. The Face Painter offered, instead "green LNG" that was to be created in a yet to be constructed (no construction or even planning, as far as I am aware to date so yet another LPC performative stunt) in Newfoundland. So, the Chancellor was humiliated publicly and the Face Painter simply smiled for the cameras. Subsequent to that, the Japanese Prime Minister came to Canada with the same request and was told, well, the same thing. Again, humiliation for the supplicant and photo op for the Face Painter. Two very important allies humiliated so that the Face Painter could maintain his green cred!
Yes thank you for mentioning the enormous cost that was borne by the companies that were trying to build things in this country.
The damage to Canada’s reputation as a place to build anything was enormous, and our level of foreign direct investment reflects this.
Our pipeline infrastructure has been nationalized at the level of the pmo ever since - unilateral off the cuff declarations of ‘no business case’ and all.
And then people accuse Alberta of being ungrateful for the tmx expansion.
I’m sorry - but private investment was more than willing to take on the costs of these projects until they were chased away, at massive costs to them and investment in Alberta industry. It was not our choice to nationalize these projects. It was yours.
I have trouble not understanding how the rest of Canada cannot clearly see what most Albertans see so clearly.
My frustration with my nephew and his lack of understanding forced me to become a writer of sorts. This was my story for him.
“There is a household with 10 siblings.
Each sibling pays rent to Mom based on a complex formula which boasts of “carve outs” based on how much rent she can take for each child and still leave them some money.
Mom determines that it isn’t fair that some of her children don’t do as well as others so annually she asks all but 3 children to give her money so that she could give the other 7 siblings that money.
One of the children – lets call him Bob, pays the lions share of the money to mom along with his rent.
Bob quizzes his Mom, asking her why the other kids don’t use their resources to get more money.
Mom says it is really none of Bob’s business what she does with the money he gives her because now it is her money and she can spend it as she sees fit. Besides, she has convinced all of her kids (with the exception of Bob) that this is fair and equitable.
Mom continues the conversation by telling Bob that he has to quit his lucrative job because the neighbour is unhappy that his kid doesn’t have Bob’s job. Bob asks why the other kids aren’t sharing the responsibility of making the neighbour happy. Mom responds by telling Bob he should take one for the team.
Bob says that he took one for the team in the ‘80’s. Mom responds by telling him he isn’t putting his family first.
Bob says that his family hasn’t been supportive of him.
Carole, please understand that first off, most folks have their own problems and don't have time - or the interest - to think about the problems of others. Therefore, when Bob is ostensibly doing well, there is actually envy and then hostility because Bob is "not worthy."
[Personally, when I hear of someone doing well I say, "Good for them; is there anything that they are doing that I should learn from?" Sadly, that is not a common reaction; as I say, most folks have their own problems.]
Okay, I provided a first point. The second and very important point is that some of the family have always been spoiled and, simply put, they feel entitled. You know, "I'm entitled to my entitlements!" [Thank you David Dingwall for your inadvertent honesty!]
If you study the British North America Act, which is the basis for the Constitution Act, you can easily determine that the system is rigged to clearly favor Upper Canada and Lower Canada over the regions. Initially, the regions were simply the Atlantic provinces but now they very much include the provinces west of Ontario. Incidentally, if you ever talk to someone from Northern Ontario chances are very good they have the same attitudes as we.
Anyway, those are the primary reasons that the citizens in ROC don't see things as clearly as we.
I am still listening to the podcast, but I find it absolutely hilarious that nobody on Carney's team seems to understand intellectual property. Carney's campaign is on its second official logo in two days. And both of those logos belong to other companies/orgs. Total amateur hour.
I agree completely with everything you’ve said here with one exception. Please don’t lump BC lumber into the protected industry list. It’s been ignored by most since the lumber duties came down in 2017. We know exactly how 8-20% duties feel. The rest of you are panicked at the mere thought of what the lumber industry’s been going through for years. The feds should have fixed this before Obama left office. More than a few mills closed already and it’s not over.
It’s the latter B. We have been myopic and delusional. Not carrying our weight as an ally, and then preaching down with a high minded morality we are not entitled to. We are not a serious people running a serious country - and now the big bad wolf is blowing on our house. All of this was foreseeable. Many have been sounding the alarm - and yet our governing class, I’ll say in specific, the Laurentian Elite, have ignored and denied reality. Canada has only one hope to retain its autonomy and sovereignty- and it looks like what Danielle Smith has explicitly spelled out in her “Team Canada” approach. We’re at an inflection point, we’re going one way or the other, but at this point I have no idea which way we go.
A detail: you are using an incorrect term, it should be Laurentian UnElite NoConsensus Corruptocrats. This term realistically describes the way they run and continue to run this country. Consensus requires a wide buy-in and agreement with a direction proposed and taken. These f.......s never ever sought that, arranging things in the backrooms so the sweaty saps providing their wealth would have no way to object.
P.S. 60% chance we are going down, because the Laurentian UnElite NoConsensus Corruptocratic f.......s continue to ignore and deny reality and demand that the cost of THEIR “Team Canada” approach be borne by one province that has been shafted over and over and over and over. So, national unity crisis is coming, quite sooner than I would have expected.
Thank you for the insights on Alberta and the oil network. And God bless Danielle Smith for standing up to the central Canadian bullies for her people and their maker way of life. A comparison to Louis Riel springs to mind. Keeping in mind how Central Canada dealt with Riel and other uppity people, I hope she had good bodyguards against the possible implementation of classified “ contingency plan” responses by RCMP and other Ottawa agencies.
From another perspective, when I see Doug Ford trumpeting “Canada is not for sale” I ask myself: who said it was for sale?; and, who suddenly made you the owner? If I put up my house for sale and the real estate agent has a showing I don’t need some asshole with a placard in my driveway saying it’s not for sale because he’s worried about the buyers being Black or Jewish or gay or whatever - or heaven forbid, American.
Speaking of the 30 percent open mindedness to US integration by the young and productive and I believe most recent immigrants being offset by those Canadians over 60, I wonder if the survey scenario included the Canada pension plan etc being replaced by Social Security on a one for one dollar basis and Canada Medicare being replaced by US Medicare for over 65s, whether the 30 percent would move drastically upwards. I believe Canadians are a lot more transactional than the politicians would have us believe. Samuel Johnson -,a Brit which makes him a Canadian - might well have foreseen the current political response when he stared that that “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” . According to scholars, he was referring to the pretended patriotism which is used by individuals as a cloak for self interest. 🤨
Looking forward to Tuesday and the New Jerusalem…🙄
as an Albertan - sigh - I almost could've got behind Smith except for the fact that she chose to go down south and lick Trump's boots instead of even keeping up any pretense of a united front. Jen's criticism of any strategy of selling out one part of the country to benefit everyone else is correct.
- Except I fail to understand why there is no criticism for Smith pre-emptively selling out the rest of the country and clearly signalling to.Trump that she is clearly the weakest link in any pan Canadian bargaining position. She couldn't be bothered w even an initial illusion of a united Canada but went to kiss the ring completely unbeckoned - and from reports, Trump clearly doesn't give a shit what Danni wants either - but he knows who the weasel is now.
And can we please stop whining about pipelines? PC govs couldn't get them done even w Harper in gov, this isn't all Trudeau's fault. Also Maybe Jen doesn't need to join Bluesky "since they all hate her over there" - (which is honestly a weird thing to say since you pick exactly who you want to follow") - but maybe she should get out of her bubble a bit because Smith didnt win some massive majority in AB and acting like there would be some massive separatist push of real legitimacy - just whatever - tired of this province being the biggest fuking butthurt losers ever. Just tired of the whining - Alberta is my home, I work in trades and am self employed - I'll be profoundly affected if tariffs go thru - but I'm a Canadian first. Selling out the rest of the country before even meeting w the premiere/partners in confederation? Smith can get fucked.
Surprised you guys didn't even bother to cover how Smiths antics play w PP. You think he's going to be ABs saviour when he needs all those que/Ont votes to get to a majority? If you wanted a list of event that clears the board and mess things for PP? Trudeau re-signs and Carney wins,.Trump tariffs force PP/CPC to actually divulge policy/plans and make hard choices - and Smith doing her best to self-sabotage PP's ability to unite the country is a good start. And it's barely mid Jan.
Four exports pipelines were approved and ultimately constructed during the Harper years :
-Enbridge Alberta Clipper
-Enbridge Line 9 Reversal
-TC Keystone Phase I
-KM Anchor Loop
The political narrative that Harper didn't build any pipelines is an example of politicians telling a lie often enough than it becomes truth because not many of the ignorant masses will make the effort to check facts
I believe people who deal with trump as if he's a normal businessman are fools. Even if we all bent the knee and gave him what he wants, he'll just ask for more. The point is to create chaos for his own ends (Jared Moskovitz explains it well). Any deal with him would heavily favour the US to our loss anyway. Nope, I'm with the resistance.
The lack of a United Front is a symptom of lack of Federal leadership. We are sorely missing the Federal government stepping up especially now.
Also whatever happened to Federal government preparation for Trump Presidency? Federal government has been reassuring us that they were prepared for more than a year now.
It is also a symptom of 5 decades of wedge politics. "Screw the west, we'll take the rest" will likely improve polling numbers for the Federal Liberals and for Danielle Smith.
Besides Pierre Polievre, the other bug closer from this mess is Naheed Nenshi. He is wedged between crisizing Smith and standing up for his province.
I doubt the "Screw the west" will work this time. Methinks that wrench is worn out, and the replacement wrench has the look of a national unity crisis.
If we're all into this together as a county to fight tariffs we should have each other's back as a county. Would the rest of the country commit to pay their fair share to Alberta for the economic hit should Canada restrict exports? If that would happen Alberta should sign on.
The launch was weak, but that was due in part to the short runway that Trudeau left Carney and Freeland. As for the debate between professional politicians and achievers in other fields, we had that debate in my first-year political science class 40+ years ago (relevant text: the Vertical Mosaic by John Porter), and I am still debating that question myself (I have been a political science professor since 2007). I agree with Jen----a lot of it has to do with who is around Carney. Poilievre's enthusiasm for crypto and his blaming Trudeau for inflation and everything else reminds me of the hyper-partisanship and ideological zeal of undergraduate campus Conservatives. (See: Paul Krugman's column on the Canadian economy, https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/oy-canada . )
I also can't resist observing what an irony it would be if the U.S. carved out an exception by not putting tariffs on Alberta heavy crude oil exports--because that is the main thing that is causing the U.S. trade deficit! That's right, if Trump simply blocked oil imports from Canada, the U.S. would have a trade surplus with us. But I also agree that Canada blocking oil exports would be a disproportionate sacrifice for Alberta if it happened as part of a retaliatory response to tariffs. Either way, it hurts both countries. Such madness.
And then there is the problem of not having Energy East-- does "not having a business case" really take everything into account when you consider the effects upon (1) the price differential that comes from having only one buyer; and (2) vulnerability to shocks like Trump's tariffs? Politicians in Eastern Canada share part of the responsibility for not taking the whole picture into account.
To tie the two main parts of your podcast together: Carney could show his Alberta roots and economic savvy by categorically opposing the idea of an oil export ban --sooner rather than later. MARK , DON'T BE AFRAID OF (INITIALLY) ALIENATING SOME OF YOUR EASTERN SUPPORTERS.THIS IS AN EARLY MOMENT TO SHOW REAL LEADERSHIP. ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS PODCAST? IT IS NOT TOO LATE.
P.S. Remember David Cameron, who called a referendum on Brexit, in part because he was confident that he would win it. We do not want a national referendum on the subject of Canada joining the U.S.
As Jen and Matt point out @ 1:14-1:16 , the multi-billion dollar U.S. influencers would confuse and mislead people just as their British counterparts did in Brexit, exploiting and widening regional and ethnic divisions in the process. We have lots of opinion polls that allow people to express their opinions clearly. A referendum on that question would be a mistake, particularly if it were avoidable--and I believe that it was avoidable in David Cameron's case.
So, a democracy is preferred, but only on terms favourable to the backroom powerbrokers. And when the sweaty saps raise objections, it is called right-wing populism.
NO, that is not what I said. "Democracy" is not synonymous with referendum; and when the "sweaty saps" have billions to spend to exploit regional and ethnic divisions and to target low information voters in an environment where truth itself is increasingly hard to identify and find agreement upon--it is the Musks and Trumps and O'Learys who would want a referendum, not the "people". The latter have numerous other mechanisms in local, provincial and national government in which debate and discuss what they want. Alberta is considered the most conservative, pro-American province in Canada, but according to pollsters they preferred Harris to Trump 2 to 1.
Carney and the Liberal party been toying with the idea of Carney coming in to save Canada for the better part of a decade, if not longer. Surely he'd have a better logo or two scribbled on a napkin and surely he'd have worked on his public speaking skills in that time. But perhaps, as with Trudeau, people just kept telling him they loved him just the way he is.
What is the point of Canada if it isn't a superior society to the US? How can it be superior if the opportunity is much less for young people and Canadians are poorer than the US? A more expensive, lower wage and less dynamic society makes Canada irrelevant.
Who the hell wants to live in a shitter version of America except for immigration or family reasons?
Albertans already eat enough shit from Canada that many outsiders think it is a form of low self esteem self harm. Czechoslovakia fell apart for less.
(It's IMHO a class thing, separatism always comes from the top down and the Alberta elite don't care, they just move their money and families out of Canada)
Albertans just don't trust the intentions, motives or even competence of "Team Canada." Alberta's literally voted explicitly for Danielle Smith and for her to represent Alberta's interests first and foremost.
For those calling Albertans traitors, you guys suck at nation building. You also obviously play favourites in that Quebec somehow is special enough to do this but Alberta can't. Alberta isn't an outgrowth of Ontario, it was settled by different people wired differently. This is why Meech Lake and Charlottetown died by the way, it was a rejection of having one province more special than others.
Polling shows that openness to integration with the US in some way leans towards the younger, wealthier and how new their families are to Canada. Alberta is the youngest and wealthiest province. I think the old stock would be shocked how many young and immigrant would leave immediately if they could for the US.
If Trump made an offer to Albertans watch out. It would be like a tactical nuclear strike on Canada. I don't think him and his people are bright enough to realize that though. But Canada should start thinking that America could woo Alberta away.
Btw Matt and Jen, look af Cadets. Starts at age 12 and it is absolutely free, minus some simple fundraising for extra opportunities like flight days. It is free and in fact encourages parents to be hands off. Kids learn how to parade, etc. on their own. They also have weekly shooting practise. It's growing like crazy at least in Alberta
The US refiners are already pipeline connected to an immense system that allows individual refiners to obtain supply alternate sources. No investment necessary.
If Alberta oil exports are shut down or curtailed, the US refiners can literally swing some valves and get their supply elsewhere. It may cost a little more, but it likely wouldn’t be noticeable at the gas pumps.
Canada is the only country to get hurt if this goes ahead. This is incredible stupidity.
I agree, stop calling Mark Carney a Marxist! The God-Tier Asset Manager / Central Banker is not in favour of abolishing private property. But he is a small g globalist, and he does kind of want to shut down the oil sands.
He is Chair of the Net Zero Banking Alliance, which sought to cripple O&G development by cajoling banks to stop lending to fossil fuel companies. Net Zero is a dangerous utopian delusion IMO.
When I say he's a globalist, I don't mean Dr. Evil stroking his cat / a secret Illuminati Cabal. He's big on the EU, the UN, on supranational organizations having increased power over local governments. The criticism is that he's less concerned with Canada's specific national interests, and more concerned with his grand utopian vision for the globe as a whole. I understand that may appeal to some, but I worry about Canada being one of the eggs he'll break while trying to make his glorious green global omelette. He's pretty aligned and involved with what the Trudeauians have been doing so far, we know what this looks like
"No business case" is such a great way of describing Canada's self-loathing pathology. I've said for ages that we are a cheap country, picking up the pennies that others drop as they race ahead of us. We steadfastly refuse to invest in ourselves, patting ourselves on the back for our frugality, completely oblivious to the risks that we've exposed ourselves too.
We're taxing 12% of workers' paycheques and sending most of the money overseas through the public pension scheme because it looks more profitable on a spreadsheet. We signed all these free trade agreements that gutted our industrial capacity in exchange for a promise of cheap stuff from a communist autocracy. We refused to build a sovereign energy system, exposing us to foreign political whims. We allow our dollar and our land to be used and abused as a store of value for shady foreign interests. We moan about our tiny government debt and deficit as the roads crumble and the navy can't supply itself. Our sclerotic corporate sector is completely beholden to financial interests, consuming its own flesh to keep paying fat dividends. And we permit - nay, encourage - tax evasion through generous treaties with tax havens.
It wasn't always this way. Canada used to have a very keen sense of self-preservation and self-sufficiency. We created the Bank Of Canada specifically to break the hold that foreign financial interests had on our economy. We spent taxpayer dollars (the horror!) on the railways and the airlines and the TransCanada pipeline and the electrical grid to ensure that we were not beholden to foreign control of energy and transportation. We had a federal shipbuilding policy that built one of the world's largest navies in the Second World War.
It's time to grow up and get real. We are blessed with vast human and natural and technical resources, but we squander it because we're too goddamned cheap to invest in real productive capacity. We keep chasing the pennies and the false promises of effortless prosperity and paper returns. The Americans are running up huge government deficits to invest in everything from solar panels and batteries to chips and nuclear, and they are seeing the real returns and the real prosperity. We're still half-assing and second-guessing every attempt to improve productive capacity. We're living in a fantasy world where someone else always picks up our tab.
Canadians are a cheap people. Just ask anyone in sales in this country. It's a nation run by accountants who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
What do you expect, Canada is the only country in the world exclusively founded as a resource extraction (and rent seeking) colony. Our whole culture and financial mindset revolves around extraction, not investment into growth.
That is why mandating pension investment into Canada is so dumb, I don't want to have my money stuck in subpar opportunities. Thankfully I own my own business and work around CPP and EI, but if I was mandated to invest in Canadian listed companies I'd just leave. I'd take my business, money and the jobs with me. Screw that loser mindset.
Curious that you decry the financial mindset and extractive business model, yet are happy to have taxpayer dollars sent overseas for foreign interests to extract. OMERS alone lost a billion in Thames Water.
Those pension dollars will have to come back home if these tariffs are imposed, or the exchange rate will crater. Capital controls are inevitable.
I decry an attempt to control how people invest their pension money.
I make light of the financial culture of this country and how it holds Canada back from maturity and growth as a country. I'm asking for our financial culture to move on from the zero sum mindset, and that includes mandating investment in Canada.
If there were more Canadian Dollars available for Canadian companies, there wouldn't be the rush to move to the US to collect plentiful US Dollars.
The financial culture in Canada is a consequence of our open capital account. Why bother risking investment in a Canadian startup when Canada won't even invest in itself? The Canadian Dollar is a national asset that should not be a plaything of international financial interests.
The loser mindset comes from the financial sector. We have a ton of smart, driven people here who can't get access to capital because our finance overlords think this country isn't worth investing in. That could change with capital controls.
There are always work arounds to capital controls. Just ask the Chinese diaspora in Vancouver.
Why not make Canada the kind of place that people willfully want to invest in instead?
Capital controls IMHO do not address the underlying problem, which is our culture. We just don't value the value add business sector as much culturally as many other countries and that filters downstream. People are motivated by incentives, and in business those incentives are just greater in the US, and not just financially.
"Success without risk" is the Canadian dream as I see it, and being involved in business has plenty of risk and much greater reward in the US.
If it’s culture that’s the problem, then there is nothing that can be done. We’re doomed. A tiger can’t change its spots.
If the problem is regulation and institutional arrangements, we can change those. Are capital controls the answer? I don’t know, but they should certainly be on the table. Our institutions have become fat and lazy laundering questionable foreign money and sending the profits to tax havens. A tax on foreign capital inflows would put an end to that business model, and force our institutions to concentrate on building at home.
Jen said Canada can't refine the heavy crude from the oilsands: we have to send it to the US for refining into gas, which we then import.
I believe the Irving refinery in St. John refines Venezuelan heavy crude for eastern Cdn gas stations. You mentioned Energy East but failed to identify the principal executioner: Quebec. That government refused to allow a pipeline on environmental concerns.
If Quebec voted 51% to separate, part of my quid pro quo would be a 20 km wide band of Canadian property around the Teans Canada Highway: rom left for a pipeline.
Don't know about Irving, but the Imperial, Suncor, Shell and Northwest refineries in the Edmonton area can process heavy oil. Cenovus in Lloydminster and Co-op in Regina can as well. The issue is that heavy oil production vastly exceeds the capacity of those facilities.
Thank you both!! Seriously, why can't there be a case for an approach where the whole country can get behind it and not rely on slagging Alberta? All Trudeau's talk about Smith having to choose between Trump and Canada is a load. Danielle Smith did not sell out the country. With Trudeau and the Liberals so wrapped up in their own ... selves, Smith was getting ahead of the possibility that no one was going to step up and lead the country as a whole. Many people seem to forget that just barely 10 days ago our govt decided to call it a day with no one at the rudder. There was zero indication that Trudeau would make any effort whatsoever to pull together some sort of "team." Nope, I don't live in Alberta. If there is a weakest link I would say it's the ones who will go along with any plan that they don't have to come up with. (Eby.)
Compromise: hand over the export tax revenue to Alberta, and call it a day.
Manitoba produces 4.000,000 lbs of French Fries a day - 7 days a week & 50 weeks a year - the largest oats & field pea plant processing plants in the Western World & 120,000,000 lbs edible beans, then there are soybeans, corn, wheat & canola and some hemp - most goes to the US! Time to quit the utter bullshit from Ottawa & Toronto - stop the threats to the US & let’s have a national election so the Government of Canada has some authority to negotiate with the US! Who wins the Liberal leadership is so utterly irrelevant - they got us into this vulnerable national position and deserve the dustbin of history!
But PP is with Kevin O'Leary on that. Let's all be friends and get rich. I can't help but distrust trump enormously. I've never seen anything about him that would convince me he's a well-intentioned man. Except for his own personal benefit.
Trump will be gone eventually but the US will live on. Think longer term
I do hope you’re right! But having plowed through the Heritage Foundation’s Project 25, one learns of a long-term plan that has depended on trump only insofar as he brought with him a devoted maga base. Cherry on the top came with backing from the ultra-rich … after various backroom negotiations we can only speculate about. Bottom line is, this is just the beginning. Peter Thiel, JD Vance and the P25 cabal are not in this for the short-term. This is how I see it. Again, I’d like to be wrong.
I hope it is wrong as well, and quite frankly I wouldn't bet my house on it. That said, the chance isn't zero either and I could see them get a few wins. The issue is what wins they will get?
Man the Heritage Foundation has changed though, wow.
Jen, you messed up!
The Energy East pipeline was killed by Denis Coderre when he was mayor of Montreal and he rallied Montrealers and then Quebecers to oppose our "Dirty Oil!" That, in turn, caused the Premier of Quebec to oppose the pipeline and then the federal government said that there would have to be MORE, MORE, I TELL YOU! hearings so Trans Canada Corporation, the proponent of the pipeline, folded their tent and withdrew their application. This was popularly seen by the LPC and their acolytes as TCC saying that the pipeline was not economic but what was not economic was the enormous cost of MORE, MORE, I TELL YOU! hearings when hearings had already be held. Just for those who think that was a foolish decision by TCC or don't believe that chronology to fold and walk away, I refer you to TMX and that incredibly, enormous and stupid cost that could only have been borne by a government.
Now, as to "No business case" that was the phrase that was offered by the Face Painter to explain when he turned away the German Chancellor who came to Canada to abjectly plead for Canadian natural gas after Russian gas became unavailable and his country faced enormous shortages of heating fuel. The Face Painter offered, instead "green LNG" that was to be created in a yet to be constructed (no construction or even planning, as far as I am aware to date so yet another LPC performative stunt) in Newfoundland. So, the Chancellor was humiliated publicly and the Face Painter simply smiled for the cameras. Subsequent to that, the Japanese Prime Minister came to Canada with the same request and was told, well, the same thing. Again, humiliation for the supplicant and photo op for the Face Painter. Two very important allies humiliated so that the Face Painter could maintain his green cred!
Amen. TC spent about $1 billion jumping through hoops with no clear end in sight.
Running a pipeline across interprovincial boundaries requires a Federal approvals horror show.
The ‘Permit Raj’ flourishes!
Yes thank you for mentioning the enormous cost that was borne by the companies that were trying to build things in this country.
The damage to Canada’s reputation as a place to build anything was enormous, and our level of foreign direct investment reflects this.
Our pipeline infrastructure has been nationalized at the level of the pmo ever since - unilateral off the cuff declarations of ‘no business case’ and all.
And then people accuse Alberta of being ungrateful for the tmx expansion.
I’m sorry - but private investment was more than willing to take on the costs of these projects until they were chased away, at massive costs to them and investment in Alberta industry. It was not our choice to nationalize these projects. It was yours.
Yes, what a bloody hypocrite Coderre was over Energy East! I wanted to apologize to all of Alberta for that.
Please bear with me Ken:
I have trouble not understanding how the rest of Canada cannot clearly see what most Albertans see so clearly.
My frustration with my nephew and his lack of understanding forced me to become a writer of sorts. This was my story for him.
“There is a household with 10 siblings.
Each sibling pays rent to Mom based on a complex formula which boasts of “carve outs” based on how much rent she can take for each child and still leave them some money.
Mom determines that it isn’t fair that some of her children don’t do as well as others so annually she asks all but 3 children to give her money so that she could give the other 7 siblings that money.
One of the children – lets call him Bob, pays the lions share of the money to mom along with his rent.
Bob quizzes his Mom, asking her why the other kids don’t use their resources to get more money.
Mom says it is really none of Bob’s business what she does with the money he gives her because now it is her money and she can spend it as she sees fit. Besides, she has convinced all of her kids (with the exception of Bob) that this is fair and equitable.
Mom continues the conversation by telling Bob that he has to quit his lucrative job because the neighbour is unhappy that his kid doesn’t have Bob’s job. Bob asks why the other kids aren’t sharing the responsibility of making the neighbour happy. Mom responds by telling Bob he should take one for the team.
Bob says that he took one for the team in the ‘80’s. Mom responds by telling him he isn’t putting his family first.
Bob says that his family hasn’t been supportive of him.
Mom says “sucks to be you Bob” “
Ah, how the rest of Canada ....
Carole, please understand that first off, most folks have their own problems and don't have time - or the interest - to think about the problems of others. Therefore, when Bob is ostensibly doing well, there is actually envy and then hostility because Bob is "not worthy."
[Personally, when I hear of someone doing well I say, "Good for them; is there anything that they are doing that I should learn from?" Sadly, that is not a common reaction; as I say, most folks have their own problems.]
Okay, I provided a first point. The second and very important point is that some of the family have always been spoiled and, simply put, they feel entitled. You know, "I'm entitled to my entitlements!" [Thank you David Dingwall for your inadvertent honesty!]
If you study the British North America Act, which is the basis for the Constitution Act, you can easily determine that the system is rigged to clearly favor Upper Canada and Lower Canada over the regions. Initially, the regions were simply the Atlantic provinces but now they very much include the provinces west of Ontario. Incidentally, if you ever talk to someone from Northern Ontario chances are very good they have the same attitudes as we.
Anyway, those are the primary reasons that the citizens in ROC don't see things as clearly as we.
...Yes, it really is a testament to Bob's hard work and industry that he was lucky enough to find an oil well in his backyard.
Hearings were also delayed after being stormed by protestors: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/neb-hearings-energy-east-protest-quebec-2016-1.3739215
Were these protestors ever prosecuted?
I am still listening to the podcast, but I find it absolutely hilarious that nobody on Carney's team seems to understand intellectual property. Carney's campaign is on its second official logo in two days. And both of those logos belong to other companies/orgs. Total amateur hour.
But he’s so qualified! With the qualifications!
This is the sort of stuff you learn when you have a really strong CV and go to Davos, apparently.
Just wait until the campaign song is chosen.
My vote is for the Doo-Wop smash hit “The Great Pretender” but for heaven’s sake, please check out the copyright infringement risks first.
I agree completely with everything you’ve said here with one exception. Please don’t lump BC lumber into the protected industry list. It’s been ignored by most since the lumber duties came down in 2017. We know exactly how 8-20% duties feel. The rest of you are panicked at the mere thought of what the lumber industry’s been going through for years. The feds should have fixed this before Obama left office. More than a few mills closed already and it’s not over.
Yeah softwood lumber was left out of NAFTA and has been a recurring problem.
Did Trump fuck us? Or did we fuck ourselves, and Trump happened to notice? There's a huge difference.
We presented an irresistible target for some low-cost bullying. Because we’re led by the political equivalent of some kind of OF clown show.
It’s the latter B. We have been myopic and delusional. Not carrying our weight as an ally, and then preaching down with a high minded morality we are not entitled to. We are not a serious people running a serious country - and now the big bad wolf is blowing on our house. All of this was foreseeable. Many have been sounding the alarm - and yet our governing class, I’ll say in specific, the Laurentian Elite, have ignored and denied reality. Canada has only one hope to retain its autonomy and sovereignty- and it looks like what Danielle Smith has explicitly spelled out in her “Team Canada” approach. We’re at an inflection point, we’re going one way or the other, but at this point I have no idea which way we go.
I agree that we brought a lot of this on ourselves.
You are correct. You can see whom I do not love.
A detail: you are using an incorrect term, it should be Laurentian UnElite NoConsensus Corruptocrats. This term realistically describes the way they run and continue to run this country. Consensus requires a wide buy-in and agreement with a direction proposed and taken. These f.......s never ever sought that, arranging things in the backrooms so the sweaty saps providing their wealth would have no way to object.
P.S. 60% chance we are going down, because the Laurentian UnElite NoConsensus Corruptocratic f.......s continue to ignore and deny reality and demand that the cost of THEIR “Team Canada” approach be borne by one province that has been shafted over and over and over and over. So, national unity crisis is coming, quite sooner than I would have expected.
Thank you for the insights on Alberta and the oil network. And God bless Danielle Smith for standing up to the central Canadian bullies for her people and their maker way of life. A comparison to Louis Riel springs to mind. Keeping in mind how Central Canada dealt with Riel and other uppity people, I hope she had good bodyguards against the possible implementation of classified “ contingency plan” responses by RCMP and other Ottawa agencies.
From another perspective, when I see Doug Ford trumpeting “Canada is not for sale” I ask myself: who said it was for sale?; and, who suddenly made you the owner? If I put up my house for sale and the real estate agent has a showing I don’t need some asshole with a placard in my driveway saying it’s not for sale because he’s worried about the buyers being Black or Jewish or gay or whatever - or heaven forbid, American.
Speaking of the 30 percent open mindedness to US integration by the young and productive and I believe most recent immigrants being offset by those Canadians over 60, I wonder if the survey scenario included the Canada pension plan etc being replaced by Social Security on a one for one dollar basis and Canada Medicare being replaced by US Medicare for over 65s, whether the 30 percent would move drastically upwards. I believe Canadians are a lot more transactional than the politicians would have us believe. Samuel Johnson -,a Brit which makes him a Canadian - might well have foreseen the current political response when he stared that that “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” . According to scholars, he was referring to the pretended patriotism which is used by individuals as a cloak for self interest. 🤨
Looking forward to Tuesday and the New Jerusalem…🙄
as an Albertan - sigh - I almost could've got behind Smith except for the fact that she chose to go down south and lick Trump's boots instead of even keeping up any pretense of a united front. Jen's criticism of any strategy of selling out one part of the country to benefit everyone else is correct.
- Except I fail to understand why there is no criticism for Smith pre-emptively selling out the rest of the country and clearly signalling to.Trump that she is clearly the weakest link in any pan Canadian bargaining position. She couldn't be bothered w even an initial illusion of a united Canada but went to kiss the ring completely unbeckoned - and from reports, Trump clearly doesn't give a shit what Danni wants either - but he knows who the weasel is now.
And can we please stop whining about pipelines? PC govs couldn't get them done even w Harper in gov, this isn't all Trudeau's fault. Also Maybe Jen doesn't need to join Bluesky "since they all hate her over there" - (which is honestly a weird thing to say since you pick exactly who you want to follow") - but maybe she should get out of her bubble a bit because Smith didnt win some massive majority in AB and acting like there would be some massive separatist push of real legitimacy - just whatever - tired of this province being the biggest fuking butthurt losers ever. Just tired of the whining - Alberta is my home, I work in trades and am self employed - I'll be profoundly affected if tariffs go thru - but I'm a Canadian first. Selling out the rest of the country before even meeting w the premiere/partners in confederation? Smith can get fucked.
Surprised you guys didn't even bother to cover how Smiths antics play w PP. You think he's going to be ABs saviour when he needs all those que/Ont votes to get to a majority? If you wanted a list of event that clears the board and mess things for PP? Trudeau re-signs and Carney wins,.Trump tariffs force PP/CPC to actually divulge policy/plans and make hard choices - and Smith doing her best to self-sabotage PP's ability to unite the country is a good start. And it's barely mid Jan.
Four exports pipelines were approved and ultimately constructed during the Harper years :
-Enbridge Alberta Clipper
-Enbridge Line 9 Reversal
-TC Keystone Phase I
-KM Anchor Loop
The political narrative that Harper didn't build any pipelines is an example of politicians telling a lie often enough than it becomes truth because not many of the ignorant masses will make the effort to check facts
I believe people who deal with trump as if he's a normal businessman are fools. Even if we all bent the knee and gave him what he wants, he'll just ask for more. The point is to create chaos for his own ends (Jared Moskovitz explains it well). Any deal with him would heavily favour the US to our loss anyway. Nope, I'm with the resistance.
Thirty day comment ban for that assholery.
The lack of a United Front is a symptom of lack of Federal leadership. We are sorely missing the Federal government stepping up especially now.
Also whatever happened to Federal government preparation for Trump Presidency? Federal government has been reassuring us that they were prepared for more than a year now.
It is also a symptom of 5 decades of wedge politics. "Screw the west, we'll take the rest" will likely improve polling numbers for the Federal Liberals and for Danielle Smith.
Besides Pierre Polievre, the other bug closer from this mess is Naheed Nenshi. He is wedged between crisizing Smith and standing up for his province.
I doubt the "Screw the west" will work this time. Methinks that wrench is worn out, and the replacement wrench has the look of a national unity crisis.
The classics always work in Canada. Waiting for Danielle Smith conspiring with Trump to take away a woman's right to choose
Times are a'changing, we ought to take that into account.
I hope you are correct
Nah. The Liberals always revert to the classics: screw the west, abortion, guns.
Yes re. Nenshi. Nenshi has earned himself the spot of being wedged, hope he enjoys it.
If we're all into this together as a county to fight tariffs we should have each other's back as a county. Would the rest of the country commit to pay their fair share to Alberta for the economic hit should Canada restrict exports? If that would happen Alberta should sign on.
Would the promise be worth the paper it’s written on?
Probably not but that fact they didn't even offer show their attitude towards the west(they view us pretty much like Russia views Siberia)
I guess they look down their noses, but does Russia hate Siberia?
I meant it to be they do not think of us at all,and if they do it is as a hinterland to be exploited
As an Albertan, hard no.
Because, when push came to shove, this would go the same way as:
- pipeline cancellations for feel good eco vibes
- unconstitutional opposition to infrastructure despite pleas of their strategic necessity, even after the war in Ukraine
- “no business case”
- sector specific emissions caps
- carve outs for heating oil.
All while sending the signals that could permanently mangle the industry’s future.
How many times do you expect Alberta to be played like this?
The launch was weak, but that was due in part to the short runway that Trudeau left Carney and Freeland. As for the debate between professional politicians and achievers in other fields, we had that debate in my first-year political science class 40+ years ago (relevant text: the Vertical Mosaic by John Porter), and I am still debating that question myself (I have been a political science professor since 2007). I agree with Jen----a lot of it has to do with who is around Carney. Poilievre's enthusiasm for crypto and his blaming Trudeau for inflation and everything else reminds me of the hyper-partisanship and ideological zeal of undergraduate campus Conservatives. (See: Paul Krugman's column on the Canadian economy, https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/oy-canada . )
I also can't resist observing what an irony it would be if the U.S. carved out an exception by not putting tariffs on Alberta heavy crude oil exports--because that is the main thing that is causing the U.S. trade deficit! That's right, if Trump simply blocked oil imports from Canada, the U.S. would have a trade surplus with us. But I also agree that Canada blocking oil exports would be a disproportionate sacrifice for Alberta if it happened as part of a retaliatory response to tariffs. Either way, it hurts both countries. Such madness.
And then there is the problem of not having Energy East-- does "not having a business case" really take everything into account when you consider the effects upon (1) the price differential that comes from having only one buyer; and (2) vulnerability to shocks like Trump's tariffs? Politicians in Eastern Canada share part of the responsibility for not taking the whole picture into account.
To tie the two main parts of your podcast together: Carney could show his Alberta roots and economic savvy by categorically opposing the idea of an oil export ban --sooner rather than later. MARK , DON'T BE AFRAID OF (INITIALLY) ALIENATING SOME OF YOUR EASTERN SUPPORTERS.THIS IS AN EARLY MOMENT TO SHOW REAL LEADERSHIP. ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS PODCAST? IT IS NOT TOO LATE.
P.S. Remember David Cameron, who called a referendum on Brexit, in part because he was confident that he would win it. We do not want a national referendum on the subject of Canada joining the U.S.
So ...... We do not want a national referendum on the subject of Canada joining the U.S.
You should add what you thought: Because we do not want the citizens clearly expressing their view on Canada joining the U.S.
As Jen and Matt point out @ 1:14-1:16 , the multi-billion dollar U.S. influencers would confuse and mislead people just as their British counterparts did in Brexit, exploiting and widening regional and ethnic divisions in the process. We have lots of opinion polls that allow people to express their opinions clearly. A referendum on that question would be a mistake, particularly if it were avoidable--and I believe that it was avoidable in David Cameron's case.
So, a democracy is preferred, but only on terms favourable to the backroom powerbrokers. And when the sweaty saps raise objections, it is called right-wing populism.
NO, that is not what I said. "Democracy" is not synonymous with referendum; and when the "sweaty saps" have billions to spend to exploit regional and ethnic divisions and to target low information voters in an environment where truth itself is increasingly hard to identify and find agreement upon--it is the Musks and Trumps and O'Learys who would want a referendum, not the "people". The latter have numerous other mechanisms in local, provincial and national government in which debate and discuss what they want. Alberta is considered the most conservative, pro-American province in Canada, but according to pollsters they preferred Harris to Trump 2 to 1.
Carney and the Liberal party been toying with the idea of Carney coming in to save Canada for the better part of a decade, if not longer. Surely he'd have a better logo or two scribbled on a napkin and surely he'd have worked on his public speaking skills in that time. But perhaps, as with Trudeau, people just kept telling him they loved him just the way he is.
What is the point of Canada if it isn't a superior society to the US? How can it be superior if the opportunity is much less for young people and Canadians are poorer than the US? A more expensive, lower wage and less dynamic society makes Canada irrelevant.
Who the hell wants to live in a shitter version of America except for immigration or family reasons?
Albertans already eat enough shit from Canada that many outsiders think it is a form of low self esteem self harm. Czechoslovakia fell apart for less.
(It's IMHO a class thing, separatism always comes from the top down and the Alberta elite don't care, they just move their money and families out of Canada)
Albertans just don't trust the intentions, motives or even competence of "Team Canada." Alberta's literally voted explicitly for Danielle Smith and for her to represent Alberta's interests first and foremost.
For those calling Albertans traitors, you guys suck at nation building. You also obviously play favourites in that Quebec somehow is special enough to do this but Alberta can't. Alberta isn't an outgrowth of Ontario, it was settled by different people wired differently. This is why Meech Lake and Charlottetown died by the way, it was a rejection of having one province more special than others.
Polling shows that openness to integration with the US in some way leans towards the younger, wealthier and how new their families are to Canada. Alberta is the youngest and wealthiest province. I think the old stock would be shocked how many young and immigrant would leave immediately if they could for the US.
If Trump made an offer to Albertans watch out. It would be like a tactical nuclear strike on Canada. I don't think him and his people are bright enough to realize that though. But Canada should start thinking that America could woo Alberta away.
Btw Matt and Jen, look af Cadets. Starts at age 12 and it is absolutely free, minus some simple fundraising for extra opportunities like flight days. It is free and in fact encourages parents to be hands off. Kids learn how to parade, etc. on their own. They also have weekly shooting practise. It's growing like crazy at least in Alberta
Cadets is absolutely awesome. It gives kids an understanding of civics as well. Tbh I am a bit surprised that JT hasn’t gutted it yet.
He's starved it, don't kid yourself. Kids don't even get uniforms anymore until they more up a rank or two. Not enough uniforms.
Seriously? What a bummer. My kid was in it almost 20 years ago.
It's a great analogy for how Canada treats kids nowadays versus in the past. Where it counts it is lacking, but great motivation speeches.
Re: Oil Export Embargo - OWN GOAL!
Oil is a fungible (look it up) commodity.
The US refiners are already pipeline connected to an immense system that allows individual refiners to obtain supply alternate sources. No investment necessary.
If Alberta oil exports are shut down or curtailed, the US refiners can literally swing some valves and get their supply elsewhere. It may cost a little more, but it likely wouldn’t be noticeable at the gas pumps.
Canada is the only country to get hurt if this goes ahead. This is incredible stupidity.
I agree, stop calling Mark Carney a Marxist! The God-Tier Asset Manager / Central Banker is not in favour of abolishing private property. But he is a small g globalist, and he does kind of want to shut down the oil sands.
He is Chair of the Net Zero Banking Alliance, which sought to cripple O&G development by cajoling banks to stop lending to fossil fuel companies. Net Zero is a dangerous utopian delusion IMO.
When I say he's a globalist, I don't mean Dr. Evil stroking his cat / a secret Illuminati Cabal. He's big on the EU, the UN, on supranational organizations having increased power over local governments. The criticism is that he's less concerned with Canada's specific national interests, and more concerned with his grand utopian vision for the globe as a whole. I understand that may appeal to some, but I worry about Canada being one of the eggs he'll break while trying to make his glorious green global omelette. He's pretty aligned and involved with what the Trudeauians have been doing so far, we know what this looks like
Bang on Adam. Couldn’t agree more with your take here.
"No business case" is such a great way of describing Canada's self-loathing pathology. I've said for ages that we are a cheap country, picking up the pennies that others drop as they race ahead of us. We steadfastly refuse to invest in ourselves, patting ourselves on the back for our frugality, completely oblivious to the risks that we've exposed ourselves too.
We're taxing 12% of workers' paycheques and sending most of the money overseas through the public pension scheme because it looks more profitable on a spreadsheet. We signed all these free trade agreements that gutted our industrial capacity in exchange for a promise of cheap stuff from a communist autocracy. We refused to build a sovereign energy system, exposing us to foreign political whims. We allow our dollar and our land to be used and abused as a store of value for shady foreign interests. We moan about our tiny government debt and deficit as the roads crumble and the navy can't supply itself. Our sclerotic corporate sector is completely beholden to financial interests, consuming its own flesh to keep paying fat dividends. And we permit - nay, encourage - tax evasion through generous treaties with tax havens.
It wasn't always this way. Canada used to have a very keen sense of self-preservation and self-sufficiency. We created the Bank Of Canada specifically to break the hold that foreign financial interests had on our economy. We spent taxpayer dollars (the horror!) on the railways and the airlines and the TransCanada pipeline and the electrical grid to ensure that we were not beholden to foreign control of energy and transportation. We had a federal shipbuilding policy that built one of the world's largest navies in the Second World War.
It's time to grow up and get real. We are blessed with vast human and natural and technical resources, but we squander it because we're too goddamned cheap to invest in real productive capacity. We keep chasing the pennies and the false promises of effortless prosperity and paper returns. The Americans are running up huge government deficits to invest in everything from solar panels and batteries to chips and nuclear, and they are seeing the real returns and the real prosperity. We're still half-assing and second-guessing every attempt to improve productive capacity. We're living in a fantasy world where someone else always picks up our tab.
Canadians are a cheap people. Just ask anyone in sales in this country. It's a nation run by accountants who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
What do you expect, Canada is the only country in the world exclusively founded as a resource extraction (and rent seeking) colony. Our whole culture and financial mindset revolves around extraction, not investment into growth.
That is why mandating pension investment into Canada is so dumb, I don't want to have my money stuck in subpar opportunities. Thankfully I own my own business and work around CPP and EI, but if I was mandated to invest in Canadian listed companies I'd just leave. I'd take my business, money and the jobs with me. Screw that loser mindset.
Curious that you decry the financial mindset and extractive business model, yet are happy to have taxpayer dollars sent overseas for foreign interests to extract. OMERS alone lost a billion in Thames Water.
Those pension dollars will have to come back home if these tariffs are imposed, or the exchange rate will crater. Capital controls are inevitable.
I decry an attempt to control how people invest their pension money.
I make light of the financial culture of this country and how it holds Canada back from maturity and growth as a country. I'm asking for our financial culture to move on from the zero sum mindset, and that includes mandating investment in Canada.
If there were more Canadian Dollars available for Canadian companies, there wouldn't be the rush to move to the US to collect plentiful US Dollars.
The financial culture in Canada is a consequence of our open capital account. Why bother risking investment in a Canadian startup when Canada won't even invest in itself? The Canadian Dollar is a national asset that should not be a plaything of international financial interests.
The loser mindset comes from the financial sector. We have a ton of smart, driven people here who can't get access to capital because our finance overlords think this country isn't worth investing in. That could change with capital controls.
There are always work arounds to capital controls. Just ask the Chinese diaspora in Vancouver.
Why not make Canada the kind of place that people willfully want to invest in instead?
Capital controls IMHO do not address the underlying problem, which is our culture. We just don't value the value add business sector as much culturally as many other countries and that filters downstream. People are motivated by incentives, and in business those incentives are just greater in the US, and not just financially.
"Success without risk" is the Canadian dream as I see it, and being involved in business has plenty of risk and much greater reward in the US.
If it’s culture that’s the problem, then there is nothing that can be done. We’re doomed. A tiger can’t change its spots.
If the problem is regulation and institutional arrangements, we can change those. Are capital controls the answer? I don’t know, but they should certainly be on the table. Our institutions have become fat and lazy laundering questionable foreign money and sending the profits to tax havens. A tax on foreign capital inflows would put an end to that business model, and force our institutions to concentrate on building at home.
Jen said Canada can't refine the heavy crude from the oilsands: we have to send it to the US for refining into gas, which we then import.
I believe the Irving refinery in St. John refines Venezuelan heavy crude for eastern Cdn gas stations. You mentioned Energy East but failed to identify the principal executioner: Quebec. That government refused to allow a pipeline on environmental concerns.
If Quebec voted 51% to separate, part of my quid pro quo would be a 20 km wide band of Canadian property around the Teans Canada Highway: rom left for a pipeline.
Don't know about Irving, but the Imperial, Suncor, Shell and Northwest refineries in the Edmonton area can process heavy oil. Cenovus in Lloydminster and Co-op in Regina can as well. The issue is that heavy oil production vastly exceeds the capacity of those facilities.