Other than as an academic exercise, focusing on whether the Nazis were economically left wing or right wing strikes me as completely irrelevant (that is a criticism of PP and not G&G). To state the disturbingly obvious, the distinguishing "feature" of the Nazis was the Holocaust and it is self-evident that the only reason anybody ever accuses someone of being a Nazi is to try and associate them with that event. So yes, put me on team G&G with respect to "don't call people Nazis".
That being said, when it comes to the impugned tweet, I am at least as offended by the fact that PP's go-to reference was the Nazis rather than Stalin and Mao. Will we ever have a greater demonstration of peoples' ignorance of the destruction of those two fucking monsters? Everybody (rightly) knows about the Holocaust but the combined body counts of Stalin and Mao dwarf Hitler's, Chavez and Maduro are their direct descendants, and PP reaches for Hitler??!! Furthermore, it would also seem to better make PP's apparent (or at least legitimate) point to invoke them rather than the Nazis. In short, it's both the objectively weaker reference AND the less politically advantageous reference for him to have made. That's some nice work there, Pierre.
I am not certain that historians would necessarily back you on the claim that Stalin killed more people than Hitler - how do you measure responsibility for deaths? It was the Nazis who launched an incredibly brutal war inside the USSR but it was Stalin's regime that was so incompetent in the handling of the war - to what extent do you assign deaths to whom?
Complicating the picture is that Hitler was somewhat "contained" in his brutal ambitions, insofar as he never achieved full control of USSR territory and we never got to see the brutality that Hitler would impose had he a lived a longer life with a longer-lasting regime. Whereas Stalin's regime lasted a much longer time.
I am also not sure that Mao belongs in a similar category to Hitler and Stalin. Mao achieved massive death tolls not necessarily through evil as much as through ideological incompetence, if I am not mistaken.
I did not claim that Stalin killed more people than Hitler. I said the combined body counts of Stalin and Mao dwarf Hitler's. Nobody is going to dispute that, although I grant you that Hitler's "career" in that regard was cut short.
In any case, that, and everything else you say simply reinforces my point which is, that if one is reaching for the most extreme historical analog to what has happened under Chavez and Maduro, then Stalin and Mao are BY FAR the better analogs than Hitler. Collaterally, that if you ARE invoking Hitler you are most likely to be acting in bad faith.
To digress, whether deaths under Mao ought to be attributed to "ideological incompetence" could be an interesting discussion. The existence and actions of his Red Guards means we can attribute some number of those deaths to intentional murder rather than just the natural byproduct of communism. Furthermore, the facts that (a) if one thinks about it for even 5 minutes it will become obvious that misery/death/destruction are the ultimate end points of communism and (b) large numbers of present-day proponents of socialism/communism are so obviously motivated by resentment and/or willing to overlook the historical record suggests we can attribute intent/outright malice to some number of advocates for communism - including Mao (and we can also drag Stalin back in at this point and add a Pol Pot chaser). In short, for many proponents of communism, death and destruction is not just a natural byproduct but rather a feature (indeed, a tool to be used) and not a bug.
Well. You won me back. The last couple episodes and other articles have been informative., neutral and honest in my opinion. Thank you. Jen, Thank you for sharing your retreat, would love to sit down over a coffee and share experiences. My wife and I could not listen to you guys during the election and just could not relate. We are separatists as we believe Canada is a failed state and needs a serious correction. Hopefully through honest, informative conversations we can change Canada and Provincial institutions to take some responsibility for their failures. In so doing maybe we will not leave this so called nation. Would love to hear your opinion on the PEI, CCP situation. McDonald Lourier Institute had a great discussion on it
I get that part. What I’m curious though is what country or countries you see as non-failed states. If Canada is the sort of country that you’d want to leave, what sort of countries do you see as doing well?
I'm going to politely not answer this question as Its not a simple thing to answer in my mind. I don't feel like getting into a big debate on this subject. Have a wonderful weekend
"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"
"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.
"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic.
"We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one."
They're weren't not socialists, but they certainly were not left wing. Right Wing Racial Socialists? Pierre was being reductive but I don't get too upset when socialism is insulted. And of course socialist economic policy while awful is noooot really what was the worst thing about the mustache man
Another good podcast. Poilievre is not changing from his doomed April 2025 election strategy, so that's not going to work. Best thing for the party is a leadership convention and a new leader who isn't addicted to being a complete arse.
Know that Canadian supporters of Hamas will celebrate Canadian military deaths, which will occur if our boots are on the ground. Hamas will happily shoot uniformed soldiers as they are shooting their citizens.
…and I didn’t on Carney! I know The Line believe it’s journalism’s role to criticize but you’re sounding more and more like the nonsense coming from PP et. al .
Nazi is an all-purpose slur. Right & left use it to denigrate their opponent(s). I suspect PP was a typically sloppy politician in his combining Nazi and socialism. Its an expander, like "really big". Reading motives into his language is, as Matt said, responding to PP's troll. Be better than PP; don't take the cheap bait.
Good discussion, thanks. I did wonder if PP had only read the one book. It is amazing to me how many people read one book (or one article!) and think they now have mastery of the subject area.
I continue to wonder what was running through the mind of engaged Austrians in 1933-35 as they watched the rapid changes next door and how they were eventually subsumed by this phenomenon.
Both sides of the teachers' dispute have an agenda that doesn't have anything to do with what is good for children. If the strike was to inform, then it has been a success. If it is merely the NDP flexing its muscle, then this will backfire as support for the teachers drops with every week of work action. Charter and private schools exist in response to the failings of the public education system, be it teaching methodology or content.
Reading MacMillan's "Paris 1919" is like trying to walk on quicksand. Will put on snowshoes and try again.
As in Nazi Germany, most Venezuelan enterprises are privately held but subject to state control through subsidies and coercion. Perhaps neither are socialist, but Poilievre's comparison isn't completely off base.
Hoping for a volunteer expeditionary force. Would look to the anti-Israeli protesters, who are clearly underemployed, to form a regiment and co-opt the Gays for Gaza as a company. Ms. Thunberg can be the regimental mascot, as long as she wears the Kermit the Frog hat under the blue beret.
“...a partnership between industry and government is vital to stabilize the [forestry] sector, enhance competitiveness, and deliver innovative, sustainably sourced Canadian wood products...”
Since it can't be direct, the nature of this 'partnership' ('relationship' would be a better word) bears some thinking about. The vital role governments play (or in Canada's case, could be playing) in innovation is a story one rarely if ever hears from The Globe and Mail or business publications like The Economist; but the insight, though neglected, isn't new. Consider this still relevant 2014 “Wake up to the real world business and industry live in” interview with one of the smarter individuals on the planet:
Have we reformed much over the past decade? If any of this advice has percolated through, it's behind the scenes (don't hold your breath for a report from our essentially worthless legacy media...).
Other than as an academic exercise, focusing on whether the Nazis were economically left wing or right wing strikes me as completely irrelevant (that is a criticism of PP and not G&G). To state the disturbingly obvious, the distinguishing "feature" of the Nazis was the Holocaust and it is self-evident that the only reason anybody ever accuses someone of being a Nazi is to try and associate them with that event. So yes, put me on team G&G with respect to "don't call people Nazis".
That being said, when it comes to the impugned tweet, I am at least as offended by the fact that PP's go-to reference was the Nazis rather than Stalin and Mao. Will we ever have a greater demonstration of peoples' ignorance of the destruction of those two fucking monsters? Everybody (rightly) knows about the Holocaust but the combined body counts of Stalin and Mao dwarf Hitler's, Chavez and Maduro are their direct descendants, and PP reaches for Hitler??!! Furthermore, it would also seem to better make PP's apparent (or at least legitimate) point to invoke them rather than the Nazis. In short, it's both the objectively weaker reference AND the less politically advantageous reference for him to have made. That's some nice work there, Pierre.
I am not certain that historians would necessarily back you on the claim that Stalin killed more people than Hitler - how do you measure responsibility for deaths? It was the Nazis who launched an incredibly brutal war inside the USSR but it was Stalin's regime that was so incompetent in the handling of the war - to what extent do you assign deaths to whom?
Complicating the picture is that Hitler was somewhat "contained" in his brutal ambitions, insofar as he never achieved full control of USSR territory and we never got to see the brutality that Hitler would impose had he a lived a longer life with a longer-lasting regime. Whereas Stalin's regime lasted a much longer time.
I am also not sure that Mao belongs in a similar category to Hitler and Stalin. Mao achieved massive death tolls not necessarily through evil as much as through ideological incompetence, if I am not mistaken.
I did not claim that Stalin killed more people than Hitler. I said the combined body counts of Stalin and Mao dwarf Hitler's. Nobody is going to dispute that, although I grant you that Hitler's "career" in that regard was cut short.
In any case, that, and everything else you say simply reinforces my point which is, that if one is reaching for the most extreme historical analog to what has happened under Chavez and Maduro, then Stalin and Mao are BY FAR the better analogs than Hitler. Collaterally, that if you ARE invoking Hitler you are most likely to be acting in bad faith.
To digress, whether deaths under Mao ought to be attributed to "ideological incompetence" could be an interesting discussion. The existence and actions of his Red Guards means we can attribute some number of those deaths to intentional murder rather than just the natural byproduct of communism. Furthermore, the facts that (a) if one thinks about it for even 5 minutes it will become obvious that misery/death/destruction are the ultimate end points of communism and (b) large numbers of present-day proponents of socialism/communism are so obviously motivated by resentment and/or willing to overlook the historical record suggests we can attribute intent/outright malice to some number of advocates for communism - including Mao (and we can also drag Stalin back in at this point and add a Pol Pot chaser). In short, for many proponents of communism, death and destruction is not just a natural byproduct but rather a feature (indeed, a tool to be used) and not a bug.
Well. You won me back. The last couple episodes and other articles have been informative., neutral and honest in my opinion. Thank you. Jen, Thank you for sharing your retreat, would love to sit down over a coffee and share experiences. My wife and I could not listen to you guys during the election and just could not relate. We are separatists as we believe Canada is a failed state and needs a serious correction. Hopefully through honest, informative conversations we can change Canada and Provincial institutions to take some responsibility for their failures. In so doing maybe we will not leave this so called nation. Would love to hear your opinion on the PEI, CCP situation. McDonald Lourier Institute had a great discussion on it
Just curious. If Canada is a failed state, what state or states would you point to as doing just fine?
Just Fine? Seems a little loaded. I believe Alberta would be better off separate and could re-build stronger without Federal interference.
I get that part. What I’m curious though is what country or countries you see as non-failed states. If Canada is the sort of country that you’d want to leave, what sort of countries do you see as doing well?
I'm going to politely not answer this question as Its not a simple thing to answer in my mind. I don't feel like getting into a big debate on this subject. Have a wonderful weekend
"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"
"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.
"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic.
"We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the state on the basis of race solidarity. To us state and race are one."
They're weren't not socialists, but they certainly were not left wing. Right Wing Racial Socialists? Pierre was being reductive but I don't get too upset when socialism is insulted. And of course socialist economic policy while awful is noooot really what was the worst thing about the mustache man
Very good.
Another good podcast. Poilievre is not changing from his doomed April 2025 election strategy, so that's not going to work. Best thing for the party is a leadership convention and a new leader who isn't addicted to being a complete arse.
Know that Canadian supporters of Hamas will celebrate Canadian military deaths, which will occur if our boots are on the ground. Hamas will happily shoot uniformed soldiers as they are shooting their citizens.
Good perspectives. I enjoyed both segments.
Go Blue Jays.
…and I didn’t on Carney! I know The Line believe it’s journalism’s role to criticize but you’re sounding more and more like the nonsense coming from PP et. al .
Downvote to your comment.
Nazi is an all-purpose slur. Right & left use it to denigrate their opponent(s). I suspect PP was a typically sloppy politician in his combining Nazi and socialism. Its an expander, like "really big". Reading motives into his language is, as Matt said, responding to PP's troll. Be better than PP; don't take the cheap bait.
Good discussion, thanks. I did wonder if PP had only read the one book. It is amazing to me how many people read one book (or one article!) and think they now have mastery of the subject area.
I continue to wonder what was running through the mind of engaged Austrians in 1933-35 as they watched the rapid changes next door and how they were eventually subsumed by this phenomenon.
If “words are important”, why does Mr Gurney always casually label the U.S. as “totalitarian” and “fascist”? Asking for a friend.
Tell your friend I haven’t declared it either of those things, let alone “always.”
Both sides of the teachers' dispute have an agenda that doesn't have anything to do with what is good for children. If the strike was to inform, then it has been a success. If it is merely the NDP flexing its muscle, then this will backfire as support for the teachers drops with every week of work action. Charter and private schools exist in response to the failings of the public education system, be it teaching methodology or content.
Reading MacMillan's "Paris 1919" is like trying to walk on quicksand. Will put on snowshoes and try again.
As in Nazi Germany, most Venezuelan enterprises are privately held but subject to state control through subsidies and coercion. Perhaps neither are socialist, but Poilievre's comparison isn't completely off base.
Our Gaza Blue Beret force will be our new excuse for not participating in NATO and our Arctic.
Hoping for a volunteer expeditionary force. Would look to the anti-Israeli protesters, who are clearly underemployed, to form a regiment and co-opt the Gays for Gaza as a company. Ms. Thunberg can be the regimental mascot, as long as she wears the Kermit the Frog hat under the blue beret.
“...a partnership between industry and government is vital to stabilize the [forestry] sector, enhance competitiveness, and deliver innovative, sustainably sourced Canadian wood products...”
Since it can't be direct, the nature of this 'partnership' ('relationship' would be a better word) bears some thinking about. The vital role governments play (or in Canada's case, could be playing) in innovation is a story one rarely if ever hears from The Globe and Mail or business publications like The Economist; but the insight, though neglected, isn't new. Consider this still relevant 2014 “Wake up to the real world business and industry live in” interview with one of the smarter individuals on the planet:
https://www.tvo.org/video/mariana-mazzucato-counting-in-the-state
Have we reformed much over the past decade? If any of this advice has percolated through, it's behind the scenes (don't hold your breath for a report from our essentially worthless legacy media...).
Thumbs up to each segment.