I’ve been dreading the inevitable negative backlash against Mulroney. Like Reagan and Thatcher, there’s a certain class of left wing people who’ll never forgive him for overthrowing the political orthodoxy of the 1970s. Their great sin was being right. The Mulroney era in Canadian politics didn’t end until Justin Trudeau was elected in 2015. His government was the first to try to pursue a more interventionist government and a break from fiscal conservatism after the Mulroney government, and it didn’t actually work.
Jen, Matt, you crazy teenagers, everything is relative. Robert Fulford said it best: at some point as you 'mature' (in a relative sense), you realize "there are no grown-ups," just chaotically lived days, extended through time, bound to a single point of view, the meaning and purpose of which, even when you commit yourself to its personal history and call it your own (there really isn't much alternative), is never known to you. Between you and those currently older and younger than you we can speak of different temporal starting points, but there are no ontological differences. To construe the single commonality of sharing a particular segment of the time continuum as sufficient to group twenty-somethings, forty-somethings and sixty-somethings into reliably distinctive sets in any other way is purest abstraction; and the abstractions themselves don't even have the saving grace of being timeless, Platonic ideals, since members of the set of twenty-somethings will become forty-somethings and sixty-somethings in their turn. These transitions happen soon enough: they aren't very long, our lives. One day before you know it the future you took for granted was open to you has, in Michel Houellebecq's words, "quietly taken back all its cards."
In one of Benjamin Rosenbaum's science fiction stories, however, people can fascinatingly choose which 'developmental stage' of life they wish to inhabit, and live more or less indefinitely as physical nine-year olds, thirty-year olds, or any other age they find congenial. Here, the advantages and disadvantages of being in a particular age niche really would be meaningful, long-term, as would be the competing interests of different age groups. Imagine the legal challenges of trying to accommodate the political, economic and social aspirations of 'nine-year-olds' capable of reading and understanding contracts, owning houses, and envisioning and engineering environments responsive to their own physical needs and joys (more bike paths and homes featuring jungle gyms and climbing ropes would be automatic). This same society would be obliged to grant equal legitimacy to the aspirations of 'forty-year-olds' addicted to art galleries, fine dining and ballroom dancing, while balancing this vision of heaven against the visions of all other age groups.
While it's quite a complex thought experiment, it's obvious from the start that many age prohibitions we take for granted as fair (restrictions on what people are permitted to read, when they can drive motor vehicles or manage their own financial affairs, etc.) would have to fall by the wayside. The fairness of asking people to defer the right to vote or marry until they've reached various age milestones, for example, is contingent on everyone chugging past these milestones at the same rate--which isn't the case in Rosenbaum's story.
I'm not necessarily speaking directly to the specific issues raised in this episode, but have a couple of observations about competence, infrastructure, and "deliverology".
First off, I have noticed improvements in the Toronto transit system compared to a year ago. There seems to be less threatening or erratic behaviour. I don't think this is just my impression because the news is not mentioning incidents of TTC violence. There are still marginalized people (who have as much right as anyone else to be there) but there is less acting out. I am not sure what has caused these improvements, whether it's better security patrols (and more phone reception allowing for quicker alerts), funding - or most hopefully, improvements in mental health after leaving the COVID era (not so sure how this could have happened because that problem is so deep but one can hope). There seem to be slightly fewer delays, and relative to inflation, transit fares are getting less expensive (note also the new single-fare policy). I think the hike in Toronto property taxes was painful but necessary and right. We cannot have a functioning city with good infrastructure, public services (including police), and ecological sustainability for free. In any case, I think that good news needs to be pointed out. We have problems, but decay is not inevitable.
Secondly, I must take issue with some of the discussion about highway construction from an episode or two ago. Sure, Guilbeault's remark was excessive, but he was instrumental in putting pressure on Ontario to return lands to the Greenbelt. Canada is big, but our reserves of arable land are not. Neither is the supply of high-quality natural habitat in our southern areas close to where most of us live.
We do need to keep up and maintain our roads. There are many badly-designed sections of road that could be improved without building new ones: a strategy that could reduce both financial and environmental costs. And probably there are situations where new roads do need to be built. This can be done well, as the Herb Gray Parkway in Windsor demonstrates with its protection of natural areas and provision of wildlife crossings. But it is pretty clear that the Bradford Bypass and Highway 413 will not show this care: https://ecohighway.ca/home/
Holy Fuck! Whoever that Liberal MP is that told Matt they think PP is EVIL needs an intervention. EVIL!!?? Are you fucking kidding me!!?? Max Bernier on his most deranged day comes nowhere close to EVIL. PP less so.
That comment is equal parts terrifying and explanatory. The fact it was made in private and presumably off the record means the person who said it probably believes this - as I took Matt to say was his interpretation. (I would be far less perturbed had it been made in public - could right that off as grandstanding politicking.) How completely fucking distorted must your world view be to think that some fairly conventional centre-right politician is capable of EVIL? An actual MP said this!!?? Truly terrifying that these people have their hands on the wheel.
But it is also explanatory. People with this world view absolutely would, without prior judicial authorization, freeze the bank accounts of their political opponents. They would introduce legislation that would provide for life imprisonment for hate speech. They would introduce legislation which would allow for the imprisonment of people for up to 12 months just because other people fear they may commit FUTURE hate speech. Let's be clear: there is ZERO chance - absolutely FUCKING ZERO - that a PP government could do anything more "evil" than any one of those three things. The only act that would meet that definition is the actual execution of their political opponents - so yeah, zero chance.
This government is truly despicable in every sense.
Some of us just plain like Pierre Poilievre because we appreciate his skill, ability, personality and character. We appreciate his bright mind, his ease in communicating with all ages of Canadians, and what we believe HE believes and values. We appreciate his quick wit and sense of humour. We appreciate his genuine love of family and love of Canada and what it can be. We will be voting FOR Pierre Poilievre because we like him.
Jen, you DO realize that the gentleman who referred to you as middle aged could just be in his 80's right??? I'm pushing 70 and have referred to women I do not know by name as 'young lady' for at least 15 years now and, to date, two have reacted poorly by telling me to get my eyes examined. Here's a hint - call elderly men 'young man' and you will get just as wide a smile as you will from the women.
After that you two lost me till you spoke about Brian Mulroney but rather than saying much on a positive note you have to do the 'well I was in short pants at the time'. how be you could have just said a few nice things about his passing and left it at that - just a thought.
The lab fiasco - did you catch JT's interview where he blames PP an the CPC for the delay in releasing the report documents? That was classic delusional think on a massive scale and ... the media didn't call him on it folks! becaus, as you said Liberals are right and Conservatives are evil. Sad thing is that the majority of Canadians looked at the intial reports did the math (not girl math but real math) and came up with 'China is stealing our stuff and finally two of them were caught'. The fact is that the material and research was gone at that point but why the heck weren't they arrested???
Online harm: Sure have Matt click a button on Porn Hub saying he is over 18 - at least chronologically (no offense as my better half and I really enjoy Blazing Saddles and have watched it WAY too many times but still laugh so we are with you) - and you are good to go. The issue will be with the 'hate speech' as under the current regime hate speech is speech that JT hates and that just isn't going to fly no matter how complacent Canadians appear. I agree though that it will never see the light of day due to the light at the end of the tunnel rapidly approaching.
So - what is Jagmeet gaining from his support of the Liberal government si my question and the shallow part of my mind (what is left of it) is that the pension looms for him or is that cynical?? I cannot quite come up with a logical explanation for the continuation of the supply and support agreement when it all seems to reflect badly on the NDP as they continue to support a sinking ship. Matt and Jen - discuss please.
My condolences to the Mulroney family. I spent a good part of my morning reading about his legacy. Unlike you two elderly media tycoons (😉), I remember his time in office and have come to appreciate him as one of our great Prime Ministers.
Another great podcast. As usual, I listened to it twice: as soon as I see it released and again the next day as I run the weekly errands.
I have a couple of somewhat drawn-out questions that needs a bit of a setup, so I hope the editors will indulge me. Hope I don’t get called out for a public execution for this.
I am going to be paraphrasing here, so I am not quoting the editors verbatim.
In this week’s podcast, there was mention of an incident where one of the editors had a story, he was working on related to a national security vulnerability. The editor approached government for a quote. The government’s response was they were aware of the of the vulnerability, they were working on it (I think the editor said that they were mitigating the vulnerability), it would take some time to resolve, so would the editor please not publish the story. The editor responsibly, in my opinion, acquiesced.
Did the editor follow up on whether the government was effectively addressing the vulnerability?
Is the editor satisfied that the vulnerability has been eliminated, or at least that the government is still actively working on eliminating it?
Given when the editor approached the government with his request for a statement and the date the podcast was released, does the editor think that enough time elapsed to reasonably address the vulnerability issue? If so, what’s the harm in writing an article about it now, since the issue was addressed? It could be a good news story: government identifies national security problem and addresses it. If not, when would it be appropriate to voice concerns about such a vulnerability to the appropriate authorities to ensure that action is taken?
Kind regards and looking forward to the written version of the dispatch.
Mulroney's legacy? The calamity and near total failure of what VIA Rail is today.
As for government, I think we're down to the devil we know versus the devil we don't. I have yet to hear a word from Pierre that suggests he has any more plan of vision than the current fool. I suspect a change of government will change all the dancers, but the incompetence shall steam ahead. I suspect it will stay that way until he G20 as a whole figures a way to deal with the hoarded wealth; the new royalty as it were that is killing functioning democracy.
The average lifespan for a visual flight rules pilot in cloud is 178 seconds. The mental battle between what you inner ear is telling you the plane is doing and what the instruments are saying is completely contrary. And when you believe the instruments, overcoming the messages your balance is sending to your brain is almost torturous....until your ear balances and agrees. https://www.cfidarren.com/r-178seconds.htm A great read for anyone interested.
I enjoyed this very much, and it was my first time seeing your faces. You’re both seriously smart people, so I’m glad to support The Line. Yes, very afraid of resurrecting Section 13. I already self-censor my speech to avoid inadvertently offending someone, and can’t keep up with current right-think. Regarding the Winnipeg fiasco, I’m just embarrassed. But because I would sincerely like to see a robust response to foreign interference in Canada, I worry that episodes like this will undermine people’s confidence that it’s actually worthwhile to continue investigating.
Until just now, I had no idea there was such a thing as a 'goon cave'. [sigh]
I wish I thought it was true that a stint of NDP government in Alberta was a useful correction for a sclerotic Conservative government, but I don't. Despite Danielle Smith's rhetoric, this recent budget and the last year of government action has done little to shrink the size or scope, or cost, of our government.
-SuperBad is an homage to 80's teen comedies.. That genre is quintessentially GenX in both real and imagined portrayal of parents and especially teachers as somewhere between apathetic and clueless. A GenX kid could easily stay out all night by claiming to sleep over at a friend's place. I had a meta experience where my 11 year old self and 9 year old sister biked to the nearby strip mall to rent Fast Times at Ridgemont High, no questions asked from the neighborhood independent video store that would have rented us anything. Anyone who has seen that movie will remember the part where Judge Reinhold's character forgets to lock the bathroom door to engage in an activity that Matt and Jen discussed extensively. Just as that scene came on, to our horror, my Mom arrived home from work. Her comment was "What are you watching? Is he doing what I think he is?". She followed that up with "You probably don't know what that is anyway" and proceeded to do laundry while we finished the movie. I get that the latch key kid experience would seem very unusual from a Millennial point of view
-Matt also triggered another memory of my (long departed) mother. When she was about Matt's age, she saw a neighborhood teenaged girl wearing a very short skirt waiting for a bus in minus 20. Unlike crusty old Matt wondering why her parents let her out like that, her comment was "She's going to freeze her ******"
-I was 12 when Mulroney was elected. Pushing through free trade is a feat that no one else at the time could have accomplished. Unfortunately he chose to spend his remaining political capital on brining Quebec into the Constitution rather than deconstructing the other critical failure of Trudopia, the huge budget deficit
-your insights into the Online Hate bill and human rights tribunals in general are right on. You get the nuance between what government can and cannot do
I’ve been dreading the inevitable negative backlash against Mulroney. Like Reagan and Thatcher, there’s a certain class of left wing people who’ll never forgive him for overthrowing the political orthodoxy of the 1970s. Their great sin was being right. The Mulroney era in Canadian politics didn’t end until Justin Trudeau was elected in 2015. His government was the first to try to pursue a more interventionist government and a break from fiscal conservatism after the Mulroney government, and it didn’t actually work.
Jen, Matt, you crazy teenagers, everything is relative. Robert Fulford said it best: at some point as you 'mature' (in a relative sense), you realize "there are no grown-ups," just chaotically lived days, extended through time, bound to a single point of view, the meaning and purpose of which, even when you commit yourself to its personal history and call it your own (there really isn't much alternative), is never known to you. Between you and those currently older and younger than you we can speak of different temporal starting points, but there are no ontological differences. To construe the single commonality of sharing a particular segment of the time continuum as sufficient to group twenty-somethings, forty-somethings and sixty-somethings into reliably distinctive sets in any other way is purest abstraction; and the abstractions themselves don't even have the saving grace of being timeless, Platonic ideals, since members of the set of twenty-somethings will become forty-somethings and sixty-somethings in their turn. These transitions happen soon enough: they aren't very long, our lives. One day before you know it the future you took for granted was open to you has, in Michel Houellebecq's words, "quietly taken back all its cards."
In one of Benjamin Rosenbaum's science fiction stories, however, people can fascinatingly choose which 'developmental stage' of life they wish to inhabit, and live more or less indefinitely as physical nine-year olds, thirty-year olds, or any other age they find congenial. Here, the advantages and disadvantages of being in a particular age niche really would be meaningful, long-term, as would be the competing interests of different age groups. Imagine the legal challenges of trying to accommodate the political, economic and social aspirations of 'nine-year-olds' capable of reading and understanding contracts, owning houses, and envisioning and engineering environments responsive to their own physical needs and joys (more bike paths and homes featuring jungle gyms and climbing ropes would be automatic). This same society would be obliged to grant equal legitimacy to the aspirations of 'forty-year-olds' addicted to art galleries, fine dining and ballroom dancing, while balancing this vision of heaven against the visions of all other age groups.
While it's quite a complex thought experiment, it's obvious from the start that many age prohibitions we take for granted as fair (restrictions on what people are permitted to read, when they can drive motor vehicles or manage their own financial affairs, etc.) would have to fall by the wayside. The fairness of asking people to defer the right to vote or marry until they've reached various age milestones, for example, is contingent on everyone chugging past these milestones at the same rate--which isn't the case in Rosenbaum's story.
Hi, everyone.
I'm not necessarily speaking directly to the specific issues raised in this episode, but have a couple of observations about competence, infrastructure, and "deliverology".
First off, I have noticed improvements in the Toronto transit system compared to a year ago. There seems to be less threatening or erratic behaviour. I don't think this is just my impression because the news is not mentioning incidents of TTC violence. There are still marginalized people (who have as much right as anyone else to be there) but there is less acting out. I am not sure what has caused these improvements, whether it's better security patrols (and more phone reception allowing for quicker alerts), funding - or most hopefully, improvements in mental health after leaving the COVID era (not so sure how this could have happened because that problem is so deep but one can hope). There seem to be slightly fewer delays, and relative to inflation, transit fares are getting less expensive (note also the new single-fare policy). I think the hike in Toronto property taxes was painful but necessary and right. We cannot have a functioning city with good infrastructure, public services (including police), and ecological sustainability for free. In any case, I think that good news needs to be pointed out. We have problems, but decay is not inevitable.
Secondly, I must take issue with some of the discussion about highway construction from an episode or two ago. Sure, Guilbeault's remark was excessive, but he was instrumental in putting pressure on Ontario to return lands to the Greenbelt. Canada is big, but our reserves of arable land are not. Neither is the supply of high-quality natural habitat in our southern areas close to where most of us live.
We do need to keep up and maintain our roads. There are many badly-designed sections of road that could be improved without building new ones: a strategy that could reduce both financial and environmental costs. And probably there are situations where new roads do need to be built. This can be done well, as the Herb Gray Parkway in Windsor demonstrates with its protection of natural areas and provision of wildlife crossings. But it is pretty clear that the Bradford Bypass and Highway 413 will not show this care: https://ecohighway.ca/home/
Holy Fuck! Whoever that Liberal MP is that told Matt they think PP is EVIL needs an intervention. EVIL!!?? Are you fucking kidding me!!?? Max Bernier on his most deranged day comes nowhere close to EVIL. PP less so.
That comment is equal parts terrifying and explanatory. The fact it was made in private and presumably off the record means the person who said it probably believes this - as I took Matt to say was his interpretation. (I would be far less perturbed had it been made in public - could right that off as grandstanding politicking.) How completely fucking distorted must your world view be to think that some fairly conventional centre-right politician is capable of EVIL? An actual MP said this!!?? Truly terrifying that these people have their hands on the wheel.
But it is also explanatory. People with this world view absolutely would, without prior judicial authorization, freeze the bank accounts of their political opponents. They would introduce legislation that would provide for life imprisonment for hate speech. They would introduce legislation which would allow for the imprisonment of people for up to 12 months just because other people fear they may commit FUTURE hate speech. Let's be clear: there is ZERO chance - absolutely FUCKING ZERO - that a PP government could do anything more "evil" than any one of those three things. The only act that would meet that definition is the actual execution of their political opponents - so yeah, zero chance.
This government is truly despicable in every sense.
Some of us just plain like Pierre Poilievre because we appreciate his skill, ability, personality and character. We appreciate his bright mind, his ease in communicating with all ages of Canadians, and what we believe HE believes and values. We appreciate his quick wit and sense of humour. We appreciate his genuine love of family and love of Canada and what it can be. We will be voting FOR Pierre Poilievre because we like him.
Jen, you DO realize that the gentleman who referred to you as middle aged could just be in his 80's right??? I'm pushing 70 and have referred to women I do not know by name as 'young lady' for at least 15 years now and, to date, two have reacted poorly by telling me to get my eyes examined. Here's a hint - call elderly men 'young man' and you will get just as wide a smile as you will from the women.
After that you two lost me till you spoke about Brian Mulroney but rather than saying much on a positive note you have to do the 'well I was in short pants at the time'. how be you could have just said a few nice things about his passing and left it at that - just a thought.
The lab fiasco - did you catch JT's interview where he blames PP an the CPC for the delay in releasing the report documents? That was classic delusional think on a massive scale and ... the media didn't call him on it folks! becaus, as you said Liberals are right and Conservatives are evil. Sad thing is that the majority of Canadians looked at the intial reports did the math (not girl math but real math) and came up with 'China is stealing our stuff and finally two of them were caught'. The fact is that the material and research was gone at that point but why the heck weren't they arrested???
Online harm: Sure have Matt click a button on Porn Hub saying he is over 18 - at least chronologically (no offense as my better half and I really enjoy Blazing Saddles and have watched it WAY too many times but still laugh so we are with you) - and you are good to go. The issue will be with the 'hate speech' as under the current regime hate speech is speech that JT hates and that just isn't going to fly no matter how complacent Canadians appear. I agree though that it will never see the light of day due to the light at the end of the tunnel rapidly approaching.
So - what is Jagmeet gaining from his support of the Liberal government si my question and the shallow part of my mind (what is left of it) is that the pension looms for him or is that cynical?? I cannot quite come up with a logical explanation for the continuation of the supply and support agreement when it all seems to reflect badly on the NDP as they continue to support a sinking ship. Matt and Jen - discuss please.
Hi Line editors!
My condolences to the Mulroney family. I spent a good part of my morning reading about his legacy. Unlike you two elderly media tycoons (😉), I remember his time in office and have come to appreciate him as one of our great Prime Ministers.
Another great podcast. As usual, I listened to it twice: as soon as I see it released and again the next day as I run the weekly errands.
I have a couple of somewhat drawn-out questions that needs a bit of a setup, so I hope the editors will indulge me. Hope I don’t get called out for a public execution for this.
I am going to be paraphrasing here, so I am not quoting the editors verbatim.
In this week’s podcast, there was mention of an incident where one of the editors had a story, he was working on related to a national security vulnerability. The editor approached government for a quote. The government’s response was they were aware of the of the vulnerability, they were working on it (I think the editor said that they were mitigating the vulnerability), it would take some time to resolve, so would the editor please not publish the story. The editor responsibly, in my opinion, acquiesced.
Did the editor follow up on whether the government was effectively addressing the vulnerability?
Is the editor satisfied that the vulnerability has been eliminated, or at least that the government is still actively working on eliminating it?
Given when the editor approached the government with his request for a statement and the date the podcast was released, does the editor think that enough time elapsed to reasonably address the vulnerability issue? If so, what’s the harm in writing an article about it now, since the issue was addressed? It could be a good news story: government identifies national security problem and addresses it. If not, when would it be appropriate to voice concerns about such a vulnerability to the appropriate authorities to ensure that action is taken?
Kind regards and looking forward to the written version of the dispatch.
"I come to my cynicism honestly". Loved that.
Mulroney's legacy? The calamity and near total failure of what VIA Rail is today.
As for government, I think we're down to the devil we know versus the devil we don't. I have yet to hear a word from Pierre that suggests he has any more plan of vision than the current fool. I suspect a change of government will change all the dancers, but the incompetence shall steam ahead. I suspect it will stay that way until he G20 as a whole figures a way to deal with the hoarded wealth; the new royalty as it were that is killing functioning democracy.
The average lifespan for a visual flight rules pilot in cloud is 178 seconds. The mental battle between what you inner ear is telling you the plane is doing and what the instruments are saying is completely contrary. And when you believe the instruments, overcoming the messages your balance is sending to your brain is almost torturous....until your ear balances and agrees. https://www.cfidarren.com/r-178seconds.htm A great read for anyone interested.
As a libertarian let me post my mantra: "Taxation is theft!"
I enjoyed this very much, and it was my first time seeing your faces. You’re both seriously smart people, so I’m glad to support The Line. Yes, very afraid of resurrecting Section 13. I already self-censor my speech to avoid inadvertently offending someone, and can’t keep up with current right-think. Regarding the Winnipeg fiasco, I’m just embarrassed. But because I would sincerely like to see a robust response to foreign interference in Canada, I worry that episodes like this will undermine people’s confidence that it’s actually worthwhile to continue investigating.
Until just now, I had no idea there was such a thing as a 'goon cave'. [sigh]
I wish I thought it was true that a stint of NDP government in Alberta was a useful correction for a sclerotic Conservative government, but I don't. Despite Danielle Smith's rhetoric, this recent budget and the last year of government action has done little to shrink the size or scope, or cost, of our government.
I like "dumb Twitter era" better than populism because have you looked at some of the electorate? Oy.
Great episode. I have a few comments
-SuperBad is an homage to 80's teen comedies.. That genre is quintessentially GenX in both real and imagined portrayal of parents and especially teachers as somewhere between apathetic and clueless. A GenX kid could easily stay out all night by claiming to sleep over at a friend's place. I had a meta experience where my 11 year old self and 9 year old sister biked to the nearby strip mall to rent Fast Times at Ridgemont High, no questions asked from the neighborhood independent video store that would have rented us anything. Anyone who has seen that movie will remember the part where Judge Reinhold's character forgets to lock the bathroom door to engage in an activity that Matt and Jen discussed extensively. Just as that scene came on, to our horror, my Mom arrived home from work. Her comment was "What are you watching? Is he doing what I think he is?". She followed that up with "You probably don't know what that is anyway" and proceeded to do laundry while we finished the movie. I get that the latch key kid experience would seem very unusual from a Millennial point of view
-Matt also triggered another memory of my (long departed) mother. When she was about Matt's age, she saw a neighborhood teenaged girl wearing a very short skirt waiting for a bus in minus 20. Unlike crusty old Matt wondering why her parents let her out like that, her comment was "She's going to freeze her ******"
-I was 12 when Mulroney was elected. Pushing through free trade is a feat that no one else at the time could have accomplished. Unfortunately he chose to spend his remaining political capital on brining Quebec into the Constitution rather than deconstructing the other critical failure of Trudopia, the huge budget deficit
-your insights into the Online Hate bill and human rights tribunals in general are right on. You get the nuance between what government can and cannot do